Conspiracies, sheeple, the universe and everything

[Catfish]

What is true is, that the US helped and supported Bin Laden for decades, when he fought against the Russians in Afghanistan until they withdrew.

At that time the CIA had also recruited some additional people from abroad to fight with the Taliban resistance aginst the Russians in Afghanistan, and ran a data base that contained all fighters along with telephone number, addresses and ways to contact them.

At some point this group decided (for whatever reason - maybe they were betrayed, or at least felt like that) to turn against the US - really ? Did they ?

The name of said file was indeed "Al quaeda", and this is nothing new. Come on Dowly, do you want to question that ?

Make of that what you want

[AVGWarhawk]

I heard the issue in Syria is over a natural gas pipeline.

Why has the little nation of Qatar spent 3 billion dollars to support the rebels in Syria? Could it be because Qatar is the largest exporter of liquid natural gas in the world and Assad won’t let them build a natural gas pipeline through Syria? Of course. Qatar wants to install a puppet regime in Syria that will allow them to build a pipeline which will enable them to sell lots and lots of natural gas to Europe. Why is Saudi Arabia spending huge amounts of money to help the rebels and why has Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan been “jetting from covert command centers near the Syrian front lines to the Élysée Palace in Paris and the Kremlin in Moscow, seeking to undermine the Assad regime”? Well, it turns out that Saudi Arabia intends to install their own puppet government in Syria which will allow the Saudis to control the flow of energy through the region. On the other side, Russia very much prefers the Assad regime for a whole bunch of reasons. One of those reasons is that Assad is helping to block the flow of natural gas out of the Persian Gulf into Europe, thus ensuring higher profits for Gazprom. Now the United States is getting directly involved in the conflict. If the U.S. is successful in getting rid of the Assad regime, it will be good for either the Saudis or Qatar (and possibly for both), and it will be really bad for Russia. This is a strategic geopolitical conflict about natural resources, religion and money, and it really has nothing to do with chemical weapons at all.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Oh, yours clearly shows it too. I was just adding to the obvious.

Ah, but you can't be too careful when it comes to CTs. The name of my
image was 767-300, the one that struck the tower was 767-200. No idea how much
difference there is, if any, but better get it straight.

Ah, what the heck. I might just tell my whole "truther" story while I'm here,
MAYBE it helps someone who is one the fence. So, about when "Loose Change"
came out and I saw it, I thought it was pretty damn convincing, to the point that
I was suckered in to the whole "truther" thing. Then I started to see debunkers
pointing how wrong "LC" was. And I admit, I was pretty angry to see
that someone couldn't see the "obvious truth". Hell, even someone I highly respected
from the GWX team PM'd me to stop the nonsense. I took about 12 months off from the
whole thing (I never was a "hardcore" truther), and then came the anniversary,
which was then somewhat of a "big deal" in finnish media too. We had reruns
of the live shows, documentaries and stuff. So, I decided to start looking at
9/11 again (I love mysteries), and little by little I started to see just how wrong I was.
To see how the "truthers" acted, manipulating photos/videos/audio, taking quotes
out of context and riding on fancy titles.

And that's why I want everyone, who's "on the fence" to look at both sides,
with an open mind, do your own research. Taught me quite a bit.


Lastly, a riddle: What you see on most CT sites but you hardly ever see on debunker sites?

I smell a conspiracy!

[Takeda Shingen]

I believe that I have made my view of conspiracy theories, as well as those that hold to them, so painfully clear as to negate any need to repeat myself, so I'll just leave this here instead.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Ah, but you can't be too careful when it comes to CTs. The name of my
image was 767-300, the one that struck the tower was 767-200. No idea how much
difference there is, if any, but better get it straight.

Ah, what the heck. I might just tell my whole "truther" story while I'm here,
MAYBE it helps someone who is one the fence. So, about when "Loose Change"
came out and I saw it, I thought it was pretty damn convincing, to the point that
I was suckered in to the whole "truther" thing. Then I started to see debunkers
pointing how wrong "LC" was. And I admit, I was pretty angry to see
that someone couldn't see the "obvious truth". Hell, even someone I highly respected
from the GWX team PM'd me to stop the nonsense. I took about 12 months off from the
whole thing (I never was a "hardcore" truther), and then came the anniversary,
which was then somewhat of a "big deal" in finnish media too. We had reruns
of the live shows, documentaries and stuff. So, I decided to start looking at
9/11 again (I love mysteries), and little by little I started to see just how wrong I was.
To see how the "truthers" acted, manipulating photos/videos/audio, taking quotes
out of context and riding on fancy titles.

And that's why I want everyone, who's "on the fence" to look at both sides,
with an open mind, do your own research. Taught me quite a bit.


Lastly, a riddle: What you see on most CT sites but you hardly ever see on debunker sites?

See, I knew you studied it inside and out. And you denied it you, you, you scamp!

[Dowly]

Does that make me a disinformation agent? I hope not, I dont like that name.

Call me.. Your Majesty. Yeeees, much better.



AND SOMEONE FIX THIS ******* CROWN! IT'S TOO BIG!

[Mittelwaechter]

Originally Posted by Dowly

May I ask why you doubt the whole story?

Why do I doubt the official interpretation of the 9/11 events?

The sheer unbelievable amount of suspicious coincidences and advantages that accrued for a few make me doubt.
I don't trust the US government - as I don't trust my own government - not as far as I can drop an elefant.
And I trust those greedy ghosts behind our governments even less.

I am no truther, but I was interested in Moore's documentary like most of us.
I still think he has some valid questions to be explained by those, who say they have the sovereignty of interpretation and the legitimation to kill.
It is not my job to provide some hard evidence for any justified doubt, but theirs to deliver transparent and possibly irrefutable answers.
They get paid for it, they have access and any support.

Well, I personally am not questioned anyway.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Penguin

so feel free to write whatever you like;

It's sure starting to look that way.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

@ The trollmeister

If you think I read all the crap you just wrote your crazy. I read the first sentence, a sentence somewhere in the middle, and the last sentence. I get it, your real life name is Richard Cranium, and you love arguing on the internet. Bravo.

No more name calling or insults if you'd be so kind.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Ah, but you can't be too careful when it comes to CTs. The name of my
image was 767-300, the one that struck the tower was 767-200. No idea how much
difference there is, if any, but better get it straight.

The -300 is 6.43m longer, for increased passenger and cargo loads.

Lastly, a riddle: What you see on most CT sites but you hardly ever see on debunker sites?

I have no idea.

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

I don't trust the US government - as I don't trust my own government - not as far as I can drop an elefant.
And I trust those greedy ghosts behind our governments even less.

Nor do I, but as a friend of mine once said, every conspiracy requires a number of people, every single one of whom has to keep his mouth shut. It only takes one to blow the whole thing out of the water.

Every single conspiracy theory is made up of outsiders speculating. Not one of them has ever had someone step up and say "Yes, I was a part of it, and I can prove it."

I am no truther, but I was interested in Moore's documentary like most of us.

Michael Moore has himself been shown to be a liar, both about his films and about his personal life. This doesn't mean he's wrong about any particular thing, but it's a good reason not to take him at face value, and to double-check everything he says.

[Mittelwaechter]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Nor do I, but as a friend of mine once said, every conspiracy requires a number of people, every single one of whom has to keep his mouth shut. It only takes one to blow the whole thing out of the water.

There are thousands of secret operations with thousands of members and they never see daylight. Especially military personnel and black hats are good at this.
I.e. the CT of Mossadeq to have been removed by the CIA was covered for decades.

Groups of special interest are to be found in the economy either and they are quite good in hiding their deeds.

Even little Annie has some secrets she keeps with her best friend forever.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Every single conspiracy theory is made up of outsiders speculating. Not one of them has ever had someone step up and say "Yes, I was a part of it, and I can prove it."

The police is quite good at this. They persuade some to step up and say "Yes, I was part of it and you proved it."

And water boarding is obviously motivating to tell the speculators what they want to hear.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

There are thousands of secret operations with thousands of members and they never see daylight.

If you know this then they obviously have seen daylight. If they haven't seen daylight then how do you know it?

Especially military personnel and black hats are good at this.

Again, how do you know? If you do know, then they are not good at it.

I.e. the CT of Mossadeq to have been removed by the CIA was covered for decades.

Sure the CIA secretly supported the Shah. Were they an integral part of the overthrow? You might want to read this.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?hl=en&pli=1

Did the CIA assassinate Diem? Good question. You misunderstand me. I'm not arguing that governments don't do dirty deeds and keep secrets. I'm only saying that each and every case needs to be looked at on its own. Trade Center? Show one shred of real proof for your claims. Kennedy? Same thing. Pearl Harbor? Same thing.

Did you know that the assassination of Abraham Lincoln was a conspiracy? It was. One of the conspirators was supposed to assassinate Vice President Andrew Johnson, but panicked and ran. Another was supposed to kill Secretary of State William Seward. He got into Seward's bedroom but the VP's son tackled and disarmed him. They ended up trying and hanging four people. Not a theory, but an actual conspiracy. And for the most part if failed.

Groups of special interest are to be found in the economy either and they are quite good in hiding their deeds.

I believe it too, but if they're really that good at it how do we actually know this. Unless you prove a specific deed it's only a theory, and if you do prove it it's no longer hidden.

Even little Annie has some secrets she keeps with her best friend forever.

Until Annie gets famous and her former best friend posts them on Twitter.

The police is quite good at this. They persuade some to step up and say "Yes, I was part of it and you proved it."

First they have to have an actual person to interrogate. Are you suggesting Bush and Cheney be tortured until they talk?

And water boarding is obviously motivating to tell the speculators what they want to hear.

So you think people should be tortured until they say what you want to hear?

I just stumbled on this page:
http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.c...urned-out.html

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

... First they have to have an actual person to interrogate. Are you suggesting Bush and Cheney be tortured until they talk?

They say waterboarding is not that bad. I mean the CIA says that.
I am not sure whether this would be bad enough then, for Cheney

So you think people should be tortured until they say what you want to hear?

Apparently this was and is currently done, and not alone in Guantanamo. You certainly know that western european countries have let US jets fly over their territory, so they could transport suspected insurgents to be tortured abroad, to not violate US law on own soil ?


For the NSA or CIA, no i do not think that some countries are 'better' than the US, and that they are doing everything according to international law, but to be a part of the west and know what we claim, and then really do, makes a difference for me. We should be and do better, not only in that respect.