The Firearm thread: Engineering artistry of wood, polymer and steel.

[Ducimus]

Patton never saw the product improved version of the Garand. Just sayin'.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

The G43 shot the standard cartridge...but was not the standard rifle.

And the M1 Sniper versions...they just annoy me. Garands aren't meant for that.

Not sure what the G43 firing the standard German cartridge but not being the standard issue weapon has to do with anything.

I would not say that a weapon design annoys me until I have tried it myself or someone who I know that has a reliable opinion has.

@Ducimus what you say is true and I am not even sure that he actually said that about the M1 anyway.Doing a little research I am unable to find a reliable source that proves that he ever even said that the M1 Garand was the greatest battle implement ever designed and it actually goes against his own beliefs as he was clearly a person that believed in the courage and determination of men.It would be more likely of Patton to say something like "the M1 Garand is a good weapon but without a good solider it is useless." he did not say that either but that is more along his line of thinking.

I can only find the M1 quote in places that might be a bit biased/fan boyish towards the M1.Patton had a mythology surrounding his persona even when he was alive and was misquoted on a regular basis so until I can find an unbiased source I do not feel that he actually said that about the M1 Garand.

[August]

The Garands biggest advantage over the Mauser, Springfield or any other bolt action is that it's a semi-automatic. That means it can put more aimed shots downrange compared to a bolt action. But note the emphasis on the aimed part. SMG's throw a lot more lead than semis but they sacrifice a lot of range and accuracy to do it.

With a semi auto a shooter doesn't have to move between shots. That means he's able to reacquire his target much faster than the bolt action shooter who must break his firing position between every shot to cycle the bolt, especially from the prone position.

Another advantage is the larger magazine of the M1. 8 shots vs 5 of the Mauser. That means 3 free shots at the enemy for every reload. When it comes to gaining fire superiority that is significant.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Furthermore any bolt action rifle Kar98,Type99,SMLE what ever they all used stripper clips as well and you you just pressed the rounds out of the clip into the magazine the same exact process as the M1 Garand nearly to the T except the clip stay with the Garand so how that can be any faster than any other clip loading to me does not add up.

This seems true at first blush, but look at it carefully:



Kar/Springfield/bolt gun .........................M-1 Garand

last rd. fired ..........................................last rd. fired
move hand to bolt.................................. grab clip
lift up bolt............................................ insert clip
retract bolt........................................... close bolt
grab stripper clip.................................return hand to trigger
insert clip into guide
strip rds. into magazine
remove stripper clip
close bolt
lock bolt
return hand to trigger

It is somewhat like comparing reloading a semi-auto pistol, vs. a revolver with a speed loader. Those who have never tried to do it fast may think it can be done as quickly, but that is not the case. There are more motions involved and while training can speed up the process, it will still take longer than with a magazine pistol.

I'm not trying to sell everyone on the M-1 or get you to abandon your favorite rifle, but the M-1 is/was an excellent infantry weapon.


I didn't see a good video of fast reloading with a M-1, but this one does show some good, fast shooting:



(The shooting portion begins at 11:00 min.)



I just found this; here is shown different ways to load the M-1. My father described the method for loading it, like he describes in for loading the full clip.

[Ducimus]

Minor product review:

CoyoteM1A check rests.
https://www.coyotem1a.com/

Might be able to use them on any similar stock I would imagine. Small merchant, made in Canada, quality I think is better then most name brand products (smith enterprise cheek rest for example) for far less money.

Some pics:





Hey look, It's "the shoulder thing that goes up" (Sorry, couldn't resist)

The underside of this cheek rest (not pictured), is a rubberized mat of some kind. It seems to prevent the rest from moving around on the stock. Combine that with the straps on the cheek rest, and it doesn't move around on you at all. I'm quite happy with my purchase in that regard.

My only gripe:
The nylon fabric is not kind to stubble. If your like me and sporting a 5 0'clock shadow most of the time, your whiskers will get snagged on the rest and pull a little. Downright annoying. So, I'm sad to say, shave before shooting, or get a different cheek rest.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Minor product review:

CoyoteM1A check rests.
https://www.coyotem1a.com/

Might be able to use them on any similar stock I would imagine. Small merchant, made in Canada, quality I think is better then most name brand products (smith enterprise cheek rest for example) for far less money.

Still love that beautiful rifle...

I'm really on the fence over a cheek rest and a bipod for that matter. I have that Savage.

It has a scope and sling on it now...but this was the day I got it.



It was a good christmas...even though I haven't had a chance to take this baby out on the range yet. I'll have it done by November.

Thinking of getting a sleeve over the stock to hold individual rounds. I don't feel I really need a bipod at this point.

[Ducimus]

Ok not all great guns are high speed rifles. Some guns are great for sentimental value.

The shotgun pictured below is a Remington 870 wingmaster magnum. It was my Fathers first gun, purchased at a pawn shop when he was a teenager. This is quite literally, my "daddy's shotgun". I dated the barrel codes, and as near as i can tell, this shotgun was made in 1961. I know for a fact that this puppy seen many days in the field, and has harvested untold numbers of upland game birds for the dinner table. Pheasants, doves, quail, ducks, grouse, chuckers, you name it.

This is also the first 12 gauge that I have ever fired. When my Dad was teaching me how to hunt (i'm guessing i was 14, give or take), he let me fire this bad boy once at a fallen tree and it about killed me from the recoil. Although as an adult, I can fire this thing all day if need be. In fact my dad has since taken to using his Browning auto loader, so he'd put this one in my hand whenever we went hunting together.

My father passed it down to me when my wife and I were leaving California to make our new life for ourselves in Utah. To me it was a special moment. It's my intention to do the same and pass it down to my first born child when it's time. This is a family heirloom in the making.

[Red October1984]

Here's one for the previous "Dumb Design" discussion



How does .17/.50 even work?!

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

How does .17/.50 even work?!

Well assuming that

1. You have a chamber that could handle the pressure

2. You have a barrel that can withstand the friction

3. Have a bullet that can withstand not only the friction but survive not breaking up when it leaves the barrel

4.The bullet would have any semblance of accuracy

You would have one very fast round that would probably fragment as soon as it hits anything. This would result in a very efficient transfer of energy to the target.

Personally, I doubt the accuracy would be anything acceptable.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Well assuming that

1. You have a chamber that could handle the pressure

2. You have a barrel that can withstand the friction

3. Have a bullet that can withstand not only the friction but survive not breaking up when it leaves the barrel

4.The bullet would have any semblance of accuracy

You would have one very fast round that would probably fragment as soon as it hits anything. This would result in a very efficient transfer of energy to the target.

Personally, I doubt the accuracy would be anything acceptable.

I'm sure the FPS on that is downright ridiculous.

I just don't see any use for that.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

I'm sure the FPS on that is downright ridiculous.

I just don't see any use for that.

Nor do I. I would opine that the ballistic trajectory would be unpredictable.

I do need to add another item to my assumption list

5. that you have a barrel long enough.

In order to garner the full effect of all that powder on such a small diameter projectile, the barrel would have to be long. And by long I would say 6-8 feet, perhaps? (would have to work on the maths on this)

For comparison, The Barrett M82A1 .50 rifle has a barrel length of about 3 feet.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

Here's one for the previous "Dumb Design" discussion



How does .17/.50 even work?!

It is a joke no such round exists.I suppose it would be feasible though all that power on such a narrow neck I am not sure that it would work from a cartridge standpoint.

You could make a chamber strong enough and a bolt but a firearm must also have a cartridge that will not tear itself apart.

Also as Platapus mentioned the ballistics would be a problem.That much powered on such a small bullet it would likely simply disintegrate either inside the barrel or in flight.If it did not tear off the top of the casing before getting to that point.

It is just a fake cartridge someone made in a machine shop.

Also .17/.50= 0.34

Here is another joke round .22 necked down .50.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ed-down-to-22/

These are novelty "rounds" poking fun at the many real super varmint rounds not to say they(the real ones) are ineffective but more of a "what if a some crazy redneck did this?"

Originally Posted by Red October1984

How does .17/.50 even work?!

With today's modern trend of shorter, fatter, and faster rounds, our staff has developed what may be the ultimate varmint round. It will far exceed both the WSM and WSSM rounds in both range and velocity. We would like to introduce the .17/50BMG Magnum.

The new round is based on the 50 BMG necked down to .17 cal. with an innovative shoulder configuration to allow additional powder space. Unfortunately, the round will not be able to be reloaded to factory velocities until we can develop a home-use powder drop that will adequately fill the shoulder space. It has been suggested that the load be assembled in reverse, with the bullet first being seated and the powder then poured throught the primer hole. We are now testing that proceedure.

The .17 cal. projectile is a specially designed 45 gr. varmint bullet. The staff sacrificed a slight bit of velocity with this heavier bullet in order to get an increased ballistic coeficient for added downrange stability.

We started development with 200 gr. of Hodgden H50BMG powder but found it to be a bit slow burning for maximum velocity with this light bullet. 205 grains of IMR4831 seems to produce the highest velocity but we won't know for sure until we find a chronograph that registers above 9999 fps.

Close range accuracy with our prototype rifle was .3 MOA. Further refinement of the rifle should dramatically improve on this poor performance. We fired a group at maximum range yesterday then sent a team to recover the target. They should be back tomorrow to report on long range accuracy.

Finding a scope with enough magnification to see small targets at maximum range has been a challenge. We finally settled on a Swift atronomical reflecting telescope which will provide suitable magnification of ground squirrels at 3 miles. However, being a reflecting scope, it has it's drawbacks. The image is inverted and, with the eyepiece being near the front and at 90 degrees to the scope, it's a bit uncomfortable to hold and sight the rifle. We feel that the unnatural shooting position is the cause of the less-than-ideal accuracy with the prototype rifle. On the plus side, the exceptional velocity of the round allows a 1.5 mile sight-in and allows the shooter to hold dead-on at twice that range.

It's well known that large capacity, narrow bore rounds tend to heat a barrel rapidly, causing premature throat errosion. This round, being large capacity and narrow bore to the extreme, tends to heat the barrel very rapidly, as expected. With the prototype, we find it unadvisable to fire more than two rounds per day in the winter, one per day in hot weather. This gives the barrel time to cool between shots. We have a second generation prototype under development that uses an environmentally correct R134 cooling system that operates from a backpack unit. It is designed to permit sustained rapid fire of one shot per hour.

We tested the new round on a coyote at about 2/3 of it's maximum range. The coyote was feeding on a rabbit when the shot was fired. However, before the bullet arrived, the coyote finished eating and wandered away, causing a miss. We recommend shooting only at sleeping coyotes unless it's either caught in a trap or already dead.

Retail price has not been established. Duplicate prototype rifles are available for those who wish to get in on the ground floor of the hottest round ever developed. We will gladly take trade-ins if you happen to have a low mileage Porche, 1998 or later. First born children are not accepted unless house broken and vaccinations are current.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

It is just a fake cartridge someone made in a machine shop.

Also .17/.50= 0.34

These are novelty "rounds" poking fun at the many real super varmint rounds not to say they(the real ones) are ineffective but more of a "what if a some crazy redneck did this?"

I figured.

Nothing came up on the google search that looked credible.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Platapus

For comparison, The Barrett M82A1 .50 rifle has a barrel length of about 3 feet.

Interesting. While my child is actually named Barrett (Not for the gun), consider my weapon of choice both on Cape buffalo (inlaws) and required minimum on conducted reservation bison hunts in Montana: The Browning stainless .375 H&H bolt-action on Harris bipod with BOSS compensator with breakaway Nikon .40 mm. obj. scope to resort to iron sights if damaged or fogged. Works well with nosey polar bruins when caribouing(providing you see them first) and on my MN moose in the Quetico when culling is permitted. We open the ball at 400 yards...and you can carry it! The Barrett .50 is just too weighty for old guys!