What will the Swiss think of next!!

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Not approved by whom? Not appropriate how?


No, but then I wouldn't want my children aspiring to be politicians either. If they choose that route then I would certainly want them to know they were protected and regulated.

I would let my children know that it is not approved by me, and that selling their body for personal gain is beneath their true capabilities and illegal. Yeah, I think that sums it up nicely. Why, you would approve of your children aspiring to be prostitutes when they grow up? We're not talking about politicians.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Apropos of none of that - making something illegal in order to discourage children is not the way to approach public policy.

So you think it is OK for children to drink alcohol before the age of 21?
Sometimes laws are made for this very reason.

[Stealhead]

I am fairly sure that Tchocky comes from a nation where the drinking age is lower than 21.

The thing is humans desire sex and many are willing to pay for sex when they desire it.Simply because it is a sin under some religious beliefs does not really matter very much.Especially when you take into consideration that illegal prostitution has zero regulation and exploits many people,spreads disease and spreads drug abuse(because many illegal prostitutes are drug addicts).To aking it illeagl only serves to endanger many people needlessly.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind only to say what I think.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

I would let my children know that it is not approved by me, and that selling their body for personal gain is beneath their true capabilities and illegal.

Teaching your children your own morals is laudable. Making laws according to your personal morals is not. Beneath their true capabilities? Excellent. Illegal? That's not a judgement call. Many things are illegal that should not be.

Why, you would approve of your children aspiring to be prostitutes when they grow up?

No, but if one of them did I would voice my disapproval once, and make sure she knew that I loved her and she was welcome in my home regardless. If she did make that choice I would be happier knowing that she was in a situation where she was reasonably safe and had access to medical benefits and protection, rather than being under the control of bad people. Better it's a profession than a slave-market.

We're not talking about politicians.

You are talking about what you approve of for your children. I see the one as no worse than the other.

So you think it is OK for children to drink alcohol before the age of 21?

Not directed at me, but my wife was drinking wine at 19 that I know of. That said, weren't you just chastising me for changing the subject? We weren't talking about underage drinking either.

Sometimes laws are made for this very reason.

And the legal drinking age varies from country to country. Sometimes laws are made for the wrong reason.

[mapuc]

Take a look at Sweden, In the 90'ies(can't remember exact year) they made it illegal to buy sex. It was not forbidden to sell. just buying

Had this step any consequences on the society?

Indeed it had. Rape and attempted rape, showed a strong increase in the statistics

These whore however found a way out of this.

They hired a little local room in a basement or what ever. On the sign it could say

"massage services" Every one knew what it was. If someone who didn't know he would be very much surprised after he have been there.

Markus

[Wolferz]

All of us are prostitutes. We sell ourselves to companies and corporations for a weekly paycheck. There's no difference other than the work activities performed. Every job carries inherent dangers with it and you must take care to remain safe in your duties.
Making anything and everything illegal only opens the door for black market scum to take it over and profit in a clandestine way. Negating the payment of lawful taxes to central authority and assisting in draining vital resources with no return on investment.
Legal, let's call them companions, would be beneficial to society in ways not considered by the upright prudes. It could very well eliminate rape and/or prevent divorce by offering an outlet for sexual tensions to those who would otherwise have none.
Even Jesus had a whore in his company. He may have even married the girl for all we know. Talk about handing out a shining example of forgiveness.

[Betonov]

Imagine how many marriages could be saved by both spouses making a visit to the local hooker/jigolo together. Get all that tension out out of the marriage.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And the legal drinking age varies from country to country. Sometimes laws are made for the wrong reason.

I think a little drink here and there in your teens isn't too much to ask, I'd rather give a 16 year old a pint of beer or two than the keys to a V8 pick up.

[mapuc]

If an adult woman choose to earn money by selling sex to adult males then I'm OK with that

It's not OK when some African or some Philippines or other woman from a third country are lured to USA, Europe or some other country in the west and being forced to prostitution

Markus

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Teaching your children your own morals is laudable. Making laws according to your personal morals is not. Beneath their true capabilities? Excellent. Illegal? That's not a judgement call. Many things are illegal that should not be.

Aren't laws made according to someone's morals?

The thread (OP) is about prostitution, not politicians. I directed my responses accordingly.

A moral is a "motivation based on ideas of right and wrong".

These are not my personal morals, but rather, I believe, reasonable assumptions. I don't know of any parent who would want their child to aspire to become a prostitute, hence my question. Does that mean they're not out there? I'm not impying that, only that I don't know of any. I think it's reasonable to think that parents have their childrens' best interest in mind and I also believe that this includes not wanting their children to grow up and become prostitutes.

The issue regarding "drinking age" should have been clearly seen as strictly addressing "making something illegal in order to discourage children" to which I even included Tchocky's specific comment.
What's up wit dat?

[mapuc]

That was kind of new to me. Have always learned that the laws in USA was build on the bible. Not literally of course

The bible is for many a book of morale in how to live your life etc

Markus

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

Aren't laws made according to someone's morals?

Only to a point. Most laws are based on the concept of protecting ourselves from each other. We make a law against murder not on the general assumption that it's wrong, but to try to protect our own lives. Laws against theft are based on the concept of protecting our own property. Laws against prostitution are based on the idea that someone thinks it's wrong, or "immoral". That is a bad reason to create laws.

The thread (OP) is about prostitution, not politicians. I directed my responses accordingly.

You asked me if I wanted my children to be prostitutes. I replied with a specific case, but my point (which you apparently missed entirely) was that there are a lot of things I wouldn't want my children to be, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to make laws against them.

A moral is a "motivation based on ideas of right and wrong".

Exactly. It's something you try to teach your children. It's proper behavior. It's respect for the other person. It's how you try to live your life. It's not something you dictate that others must do through law.

These are not my personal morals, but rather, I believe, reasonable assumptions.

Good, but again, reasonable assumptions are not the basis of lawmaking.

I don't know of any parent who would want their child to aspire to become a prostitute, hence my question.

I've already agreed with that. A part of my reaction, though, is that you said making it illegal would let your children know that you thought it was wrong. That's a bad reason to make laws.

Does that mean they're not out there? I'm not impying that, only that I don't know of any. I think it's reasonable to think that parents have their childrens' best interest in mind and I also believe that this includes not wanting their children to grow up and become prostitutes.

You keep coming back to that. I think we're agreed on that point. That is still not a reason to make something illegal.

The issue regarding "drinking age" should have been clearly seen as strictly addressing "making something illegal in order to discourage children" to which I even included Tchocky's specific comment.
What's up wit dat?

You asked a question in a public forum. That means anyone is free to answer it. You asked specifically "So you think it is OK for children to drink alcohol before the age of 21?", which attempts to put him on a moral hot seat, because if he says "yes" then he's agreeing with you after he said he disagreed, and if he says "no" then he's admitting to a moral basis that's inferior to yours. it was a loaded question from the start.

So do you believe that 21 should be the legal drinking age, because anything younger is "encouraging children"? Are countries (or states) with lower legal drinking ages morally inferior? I understand the point of "discouraging children", but you named a specific age and I question the point of that.

To your actual point: Do we set a legal minimum drinking age because we believe it's morally wrong for children to drink, or because there are serious physical dangers to still-developing bodies and brains that need to be avoided if possible?

Oh, you also didn't answer my question. In the very same post you told me we weren't talking about politicians you brought up this whole drinking thing out of the blue. Why keep telling me that I've changed the subject and then do it yourself in the very same breath?

[Platapus]

Everyone pays for sex in one way or another.

But when it involves legal tender, all of a sudden it's a problem?

Just look at jewelry ads

I always think to myself, what they are really saying, in these ads, is

Give her a diamond
For she would be upset if you just gave her cash
and called her a whore.

[Wolferz]

I want a companion...

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Only to a point. Most laws are based on the concept of protecting ourselves from each other. We make a law against murder not on the general assumption that it's wrong, but to try to protect our own lives. Laws against theft are based on the concept of protecting our own property. Laws against prostitution are based on the idea that someone thinks it's wrong, or "immoral". That is a bad reason to create laws.

Ohhh, I see. Murder and theft aren't wrong, they're just illegal.
Prostitution stands alone in that the laws against it are based solely on someone's perspective of right .vs wrong. The laws against it are not enacted to protect anyone from being viewed as a slave, object or other commodity instead of a human being. They're not enacted because a female (or male) might be underaged or get beaten, harmed by her supervisor if he/she doesn't perform to any standard. They're not enacted to protect prostitutes/johns from theft, being drugged, getting involved with illegal drugs or contracting HIV, AIDS or any other STD. Regulation of the "profession" would certainly eliminate these concerns, well, at least to an "acceptable" degree. If one or two fall through the cracks, no biggie?

You asked me if I wanted my children to be prostitutes. I replied with a specific case, but my point (which you apparently missed entirely) was that there are a lot of things I wouldn't want my children to be, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to make laws against them.

No, I don't think I missed your point. I just think I didn't see any comparative relevance between a child that says:
"When I grow up, I want to be the president of the United States."
AND
"When I grow up, I want to be a prostitute."

Exactly. It's something you try to teach your children. It's proper behavior. It's respect for the other person. It's how you try to live your life. It's not something you dictate that others must do through law.

I agree to a point. Laws do exactly that. They dictate to others what they can and cannot do, and in this capacity they can aid in serving as a catalyst to the "proper behavior" you mention.

Good, but again, reasonable assumptions are not the basis of lawmaking.

I never said laws should be enacted via reasonable assumptions. It should've been clear that I was referring strictly to the parent-child relationship regarding a child's aspirations.

I've already agreed with that. A part of my reaction, though, is that you said making it illegal would let your children know that you thought it was wrong. That's a bad reason to make laws.

I also said that I would tell my child that I did not approve and that it would be beneath their true capabilities to sell their body for personal gain. The law (as I stated above) can be an aid in pointing a child in the right direction.

You keep coming back to that. I think we're agreed on that point. That is still not a reason to make something illegal.

I reiterate, I never said that this was/is the reason to make something illegal. It should've been clear that I was speaking about the parent/child relationship regarding a child's aspirations. Nevertheless, it remains a reasonable assumption in the context in which I intended it.

You asked a question in a public forum. That means anyone is free to answer it. You asked specifically "So you think it is OK for children to drink alcohol before the age of 21?", which attempts to put him on a moral hot seat, because if he says "yes" then he's agreeing with you after he said he disagreed, and if he says "no" then he's admitting to a moral basis that's inferior to yours. it was a loaded question from the start.

There you go again, bringing the word "moral" into the fray. You're the one that first injected this word into our discussion. Do you have a predisposition about me? I was clearly illustrating that laws can help aid in keeping children from becoming involved with dangerous activities. I wasn't attempting to put anyone on a perceived "moral hot-seat". Maybe I should've used laws preventing children from buying cigarettes as an example. Would that have been more politically correct?

So do you believe that 21 should be the legal drinking age, because anything younger is "encouraging children"? Are countries (or states) with lower legal drinking ages morally inferior? I understand the point of "discouraging children", but you named a specific age and I question the point of that.

Lets face it, I don't know of anyone who is a child at 20 years old. Did you really miss my meaning? I don't believe you did; you even said "I understand the point of discouraging children." It was an example of laws helping to curb dangerous or unhealthy activities and behavior.

To your actual point: Do we set a legal minimum drinking age because we believe it's morally wrong for children to drink, or because there are serious physical dangers to still-developing bodies and brains that need to be avoided if possible?

There you go again with the "M" word. Why do you keep injecting that? You do have a predisposition about me, don't you? The only time I mentioned it was to show the dictionary's definition, after you threw it into the works.

Oh, you also didn't answer my question. In the very same post you told me we weren't talking about politicians you brought up this whole drinking thing out of the blue. Why keep telling me that I've changed the subject and then do it yourself in the very same breath?

I think my explanation lies in my second entry in this post. Unless, of course, the president is excluded from politics now.

[Wolferz]

Laws aren't created to prevent anything. They are created as a means to punish those who commit an act that is regulated by codes and statutes or a moral high ground. In other words, to judge wrongdoers. I'd have to say that laws prohibiting prostitution were created with influence from a biblical source. We all know the consequences of the profession and the damage that can be done to you via STDs. This is where the major mistake comes to light and opens the door for the black market scum to profit from it. Nothing is taboo in the black market.