Syria conflict: 'Chemical attacks kill hundreds'

[Mittelwaechter]

Did you know that Syria hasn't signed any convention that prohibits the use of chemical weapons against its own people?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...244943321.html

The US used chemical weapons in Vietnam and they sold it to Saddam Hussein to fight Iran. They showed him where to drop it in Iran, to gain maximum effect. Hussein gased the Kurds in northern Iraq too.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...he_gassed_iran

This, and the huge advantage of an gas attack for the aggressors and rebels in Syria should make us think twice.

[Archangel]

In a way its sad to say so but I find it hard to believe in basically anything that comes out from that conflict, the sources are all over the place and conflicting.

Personally it does strike me as strange that Assad would order an attack using chemical weapons, I have not followed the conflict with eagle eyes but as far as I know the war has been swinging in Assad's favor lately, and with the UN inspectors coming into the country in addition to that it strikes me as the worst strategic decision ever, especially considering that the US has drawn the "red line" by the use of weapons of mass destruction in terms of intervention.

[Mittelwaechter]

Just to balance the information - the aggresors have some supporting media too.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world...e-assad-regime

They claim to have well informed, networked informants telling the CWs were used without knowledge of the Syrian forces gunners.

Do you think the gas rockets should be marked somehow, even only to avoid shooting them into the incoming wind direction?

[Onkel Neal]

Well, being a motorcycle salesman, I'm hoping for some action to get oil prices up there.

[Oberon]

Whoa...Whoa...Whoa...

People are getting a bit excited around here, like it's The Day After or something. Calm down a bit folks!
For one thing, oil hasn't been below $100bbl for a few months now, look:



(http://www.infomine.com/investment/m...de-oil/1-year/ in case the picture doesn't show)

It spiked in January, probably because of the Mali situation and the spillover into Algeria, came down a bit and just dipped below 100 in April, but then when Egypt started up again and Syria has gotten worse it's creeping back up again. The highest the prices have gone so far has been $146, so we've still got a way to go, and when that happened in 2008 the world did not end.
Syria puts out at most 20k bbl/day, OPEC has been upping their quota (producing the most in seven months back in May) so that any shortfall from Syria is covered by the other Gulf states. Yes, Syria is in a rather strategic location in regards to oil access, however since Syria has not been particularly friendly to western interests, most of the infrastructure has yet to be built.
That is not to say that there will not be problems ahead, there are a million and one things that could go wrong in the coming weeks, many of them dependent on what Russia does in response, what happens to the Suez Canal and whether Assad is crazy enough to launch on Israel.
I can't see Iran actually stepping up to the plate for Syria, they have too much to lose, I can't see their new leader being in favour of it, but as we all know with Iran it's what the Ayatollah says that matters, so they might just do something but it would surprise me.
I also don't see the UK doing anything until next week at the earliest, the US might go first if Obama wants to skip congress and the UN report, it would be a stupid thing to do, but painting himself into a corner like he has done is also a stupid thing to do. Parliament is going to have a chin wag about it on Thursday, I hope that it's an open session because it should be quite interesting to watch. Hopefully some of our MPs have learnt since the Iraq war, although I see old Tony Blair is in support of an attack on Syria...no real surprises there, if anything the fact that Blair has put his support behind the attack should be a clear example of why we shouldn't do anything!

I also can't see the military involvement being any more than a few TLAMs on certain targets, and maybe the B2s might get a chance to play...heck, if the US is feeling risky it might even take the golden bird into combat (F-22) but anything that doesn't have the RCS of a gnat (and not the Folland kind) will stay firmly on the ground until the SAM sites have been nailed.

I can't see Russia getting militarily involved but they will definitely respond in some manner, most likely economically or diplomatically. They might turn the pipes into Europe off again, not that that does much to the US but it'd certainly screw up things over here, and might well just domino into the US markets.

At times like this though, I always think of that ancient Chinese curse, 'May you live in interesting times', and these sure are interesting...but we're not quite in doomsday territory yet.

Yet.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Whoa...Whoa...Whoa...

People are getting a bit excited around here, like it's The Day After or something. Calm down a bit folks!

Knowing our government, and its track record, I think being worried about this is well justified.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Knowing our government, and its track record, I think being worried about this is well justified.

Well, yeah, but there's being worried, and then there's panic-buying and the sky is falling in being worried.

Mittel may also have a point, there was someone, if not in this thread, then somewhere I saw that mentioned the possibility that a random general conducted this attack in order to try and advance his position in the Assad regime. Reminds me a bit of the film version of 'The Sum of All Fears'.

No...wait...I'm trying to calm people down here...that doesn't help.

[eddie]

Take a deep breath Oberon, it will be alright,lol Just think, in another parallel universe, this isn't happening,hopefully.

[Wolferz]

Watch this boys and girls....


Pay no attention to the cruise missiles behind the curtain.

[Packlife]

Impeach Obama??? WOW you dont impeach a president just because you dont like him, there a hard far right republicans who are shooting that idea down. Remember a guy named Bill Clinton??? They tried impeaching him for having sex an it blew up in their faces, Obama has not committed any high crime or serious misdemeanors, if Obama had broken the law I assure you the republican held congress would have him strung up on impeachment charges so fast it'd break your neck. An to say he has all kinds of power because congress agree's with him???? Where do you live I'd like to visit sometime the current congress HATES Obama, they held meetings when he was elected the first time on how to screw him which lead to 5 years of obstructionism from congress that's why the congress's approval rating is like 6%. Now Bush War Crimes??? put your self in that mans shoes sitting in a Florida classroom on 9/11/01. Maybe he over reacted some but he said it in his book best, the same people in October of 01' who hailed him as a hero an genius for these different things like the Patriot act, turned on him not even 2 years later. No one had a problem w/ it when the wounds were fresh an everyday we turned on the tv we saw the smoldering ruins of the twin towers an pentagon an the torn up field in Pa, but after Bin Laden gave us the slip in Tora Bora an the debris cleared people changed their minds. I agree on something's like limiting terms some of these guys still thing their in the Joe McCarthy era. But don't forget what America has always stood for, sticking up for those who cant stand up for themselves.

[Packlife]

Decided to do this in 2 post's. Some say we shouldn't do anything because what's happening in Syria doesn't affect us or our interest's, but it does on both account's. Assad is going to fall it's just a matter of time an the number of dead before he falls. Here are my reasons on how not doing something eventually hurts America. 1 there are reports of some checkpoint's flying the Al-Qaeda flag, so they are there, obviously supporting the factions that support turning Syria into a hard core Islamic state like Afghanistan was. If that side wins w/ the help of Al-Qaeda their payment will be in chemical weapons an a large group to recruit from which can lead to a chemical weapon being set off somewhere in the US or at least an attempt to do it. 2nd Israel is an interest of ours since their friends of ours, they share a border Israel already did 1 airstrike stopping Syrian weapons being payed to Hezbollah for helping Assad. An the biggest reason I think we should do something is, when I see row upon row of dead little kids an their mothers from gas it makes my blood boil. You don't go after women an children, that's even a big rule among the Arab people an Assad crossed that line like he was signing a check, this guy went from arresting protesters, to beating them, to shooting them, to finally bombing, shelling, an now gassing them. To say well to shoot that missile will just add to our debt is such a cop out, your saying that innocent kids an women aren't worth helping because their not Americans is a shame an is not what this country was built on. We fought against a tyrant for our freedom as well, lucky for us they didn't have jets an chemical weapons. An that's why people ask us for our help because we know what it means to want to live free. To stand by an let Assad to keep on using chemical weapons on his own people especially the innocent one's is just wrong. What should we do?? Airstrikes an missile strikes, now I'd love to see us straight up pound Assad into dust with our air power I have no sympathy for tyrants dictators or butchers, an I don't feel bad knowing that his future is probably going to be short an painful.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Packlife

Impeach Obama??? WOW you dont impeach a president just because you dont like him, there a hard far right republicans who are shooting that idea down. Remember a guy named Bill Clinton??? They tried impeaching him for having sex an it blew up in their faces, Obama has not committed any high crime or serious misdemeanors, if Obama had broken the law I assure you the republican held congress would have him strung up on impeachment charges so fast it'd break your neck. An to say he has all kinds of power because congress agree's with him???? Where do you live I'd like to visit sometime the current congress HATES Obama, they held meetings when he was elected the first time on how to screw him which lead to 5 years of obstructionism from congress that's why the congress's approval rating is like 6%. Now Bush War Crimes??? put your self in that mans shoes sitting in a Florida classroom on 9/11/01. Maybe he over reacted some but he said it in his book best, the same people in October of 01' who hailed him as a hero an genius for these different things like the Patriot act, turned on him not even 2 years later. No one had a problem w/ it when the wounds were fresh an everyday we turned on the tv we saw the smoldering ruins of the twin towers an pentagon an the torn up field in Pa, but after Bin Laden gave us the slip in Tora Bora an the debris cleared people changed their minds. I agree on something's like limiting terms some of these guys still thing their in the Joe McCarthy era. But don't forget what America has always stood for, sticking up for those who cant stand up for themselves.

Yes impeach him and it has nothing to do with my dislike for him.The man has ordered us citizens executed via drone strikes without trial.This violates their due process rights under the constitution as its tantamount to a summary execution, so yes he should have been impeached for that among several other things but that mainly.Violating a citizen's right to due process and having them summarily executed, which is what he has done repeatedly, is a "high crime".Let us not forget indefinite dention of US citizens per the NDAA.Also violating the constitution, another high crime. Congress does not impeach him because they are afraid of the backlash, they are waiting for him to really do something that just cant be defended, hoping he will hang himself essentially.

Congress has not been out to screw obama, drop the victim mentality. Obstructionism? They fight him on his idiotic agenda that does not work, so they get labeled obstructionists.The president is not supposed to get everything he wants.Obama is a buffoon, it's been amateur hour since day one, it's a prime example of what happens when an unqualified person gets elected.

I have sympathy for Bush, he is overall a decent man but was in over his head, he let the neocons like Cheney and Rumsfeld influence him after 9/11. If Bush ordered drone strikes on Us citizens that had not had their day in court, he summarily executed them and would be as guilty as obama but as far as i know, he never went that far.Only non us citizens were targeted with drones.Again another reason to impeach obama, he constantly disregards the constitution and other laws.



No, they impeached Clinton for lying, not having sex. The President should be held to a standard, letting them get away with lies etc is one reason we have so many problems.

Well it turns out McCarthy was right, so McCarthyism is a good thing.The Left loves to invoke his name and whine about it but McCarthy was right about communists and othe radical left wing types infiltrating the government and society.unfortunately, 50 years later, they run our universities and currently, our government.They also infest entertainment industry like roaches they are.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Packlife

Obama has not committed any high crime or serious misdemeanors,

You haven't been paying attention.