A hypothetical question.

agrims · 08-22-13, 10:22 AM

Very true and valid points. And sorry for the grainy response. I've been sweating my ass off out here in Bahrain for too long today.. Adolf was a crazy man, there is no doubt about that. And the submarine war was effective for a while as the allies didn't have good asdic in the beginning.

There are many topics about the B4B and There is a consensus that had it gone on much longer, Britain would have surrendered as there was no real way out of it at the time. There was a lot of collateral damage and supplies were dwindling.

In the beginning at Dunkirk, he should have either crushed the British army or offered a peace treaty, but neither happened and he is where he is now. A dead man. A dead crazy man. The war could have ended very differently. That is fact. Also the man wasn't the only flaw. His admirals and generals were all vying for power, that and all the misinformation and deceit his own military leaders had lead him to an early and fortunately untimely grave.

Honestly, Japan had the worst odds. They should have stuck to invading China.. They were focused on the decisive battle and that never happened for them.. Anyways, I am not disagreeing with you, you merely stated in the above that he should have invested more on the ground than the sea when he had the most advance ground weaponry of the time and was complemented by air power. He was also terrified of the British fleet, and that was a big reason that they invested so heavily in subs. Also the limit on the size and makeup of his fleet didn't help!

Still would be nice to work up the OP's main topic about an alternate universe war.. As it was plausible.

Sailor Steve · 08-22-13, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrims

There is a consensus that had it gone on much longer, Britain would have surrendered as there was no real way out of it at the time.

Where is this consensus? Again, saying it doesn't make it so. References, please?

Rockin Robbins · 08-22-13, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Where is this consensus? Again, saying it doesn't make it so. References, please?

And what is a consensus worth, of insular scholars in the framework of historians affiliated with different universities. Their organization is one of authority, not search for the truth. Whoever presently is cock of the walk in that field controls consensus by destroying the careers of those who disagree. Same thing happens in the science community. Tow the line or get your funds strangled.

We had a consensus of opinion on how great Thomas Jefferson was, enforced by scholastic thuggery until the lid was blown off on his relationship with his slaves, relatives of his wife's family even before Thomas himself got involved. The one man with the political position and clout to destroy slavery at the birth of our nation was the one who most evilly exploited the slave system for his own profit. His own neighbor released his slaves and willed Jefferson an extraordinary sum of money (enough to buy all Jefferson's slaves and leave a good living) on the condition that Jefferson free his slaves. Jefferson refused the inheritance. Once the logjam of illegitimate authority over historical consensus was broken, so Jefferson was broken over the blatant hypocrisy of his own undeniable actions. "Master of the Mountain" is your book. Fairly written and completely devastating.

Question authority. Learn the truth for yourself. The university establishment has perverted our scientific and historical functions, turning them into medieval fiefdoms.

vanjast · 08-22-13, 01:49 PM

That's the way how a lot of us feel here in ZA... about Nelson Mandela ???

No action, no talk as his ANC proceeded to rape the country, kill opposition, etc.. etc.. Not a peep from him ??

No my friends,.. that realistic history, has also been distorted and hidden from your eyes. A lot of fools still believe the lie.

Rockin Robbins · 08-22-13, 02:07 PM

I guess I'll be very quiet now......Take her down!

Sailor Steve · 08-22-13, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

The one man with the political position and clout to destroy slavery at the birth of our nation was the one who most evilly exploited the slave system for his own profit.

At least he felt guilty about it...or said he did.

Quote:

His own neighbor released his slaves and willed Jefferson an extraordinary sum of money (enough to buy all Jefferson's slaves and leave a good living) on the condition that Jefferson free his slaves. Jefferson refused the inheritance.

In that regard Madison was no better. Little Jemmy had a friend who chastised him for not freeing his slaves. This friend (could he be the same fellow?) sold his plantation, bought a big piece of land in Kentucky and moved the entire group there, freeing his slaves and dividing up his wealth equally among all, then working the land the same as the rest of his newly-freed fellow citizens.
James Madison, by Ralph Ketcham

Rockin Robbins · 08-22-13, 02:21 PM

Jefferson's neighbor knew that just freeing his slaves in Virginie would cause problems, probably involving the newly freed slaves being rounded up and reenslaved or worse. So took all his slaves on a boat north across the Ohio River. On the other shore he simply announced that every man, woman and child was now a free human being and that they could accompany him if they wished and he would treat them as equals.

The result was the founding of the state of Indiana, and he was first governor. Jefferson declined to follow his example. Two opportunities (of many) for Jefferson to show the meaning of the words "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights." But now he was older and knew better... No wonder Marquis de Lafayette disowned him. Jefferson was a despicable human being who freely and knowingly chose the dark side.

Admiral Halsey · 08-22-13, 03:37 PM

When did this thread go from hypothetical WW2 scenarios to talking about Jefferson's slaves?

Rockin Robbins · 08-22-13, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admiral Halsey

When did this thread go from hypothetical WW2 scenarios to talking about Jefferson's slaves?

Would you believe.......cosmic rays?

I really need to get back to my infiltration of Rabaul to salvage my pitiful career. Going deep....

Sailor Steve · 08-22-13, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admiral Halsey

When did this thread go from hypothetical WW2 scenarios to talking about Jefferson's slaves?

It took a left turn at the Battle of Britain. After that "history" stopped being history and the past is all fantasy anyway, so why couldn't Jefferson's slaves have stopped Hitler's u-boats?

After all, three American slaves are worth five nazi scumbags.

08-22-13, 02:07 PM	#5
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	I guess I'll be very quiet now......Take her down! __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-22-13, 02:21 PM	#7
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Jefferson's neighbor knew that just freeing his slaves in Virginie would cause problems, probably involving the newly freed slaves being rounded up and reenslaved or worse. So took all his slaves on a boat north across the Ohio River. On the other shore he simply announced that every man, woman and child was now a free human being and that they could accompany him if they wished and he would treat them as equals. The result was the founding of the state of Indiana, and he was first governor. Jefferson declined to follow his example. Two opportunities (of many) for Jefferson to show the meaning of the words "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights." But now he was older and knew better... No wonder Marquis de Lafayette disowned him. Jefferson was a despicable human being who freely and knowingly chose the dark side. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-22-13, 10:22 AM	#1
agrims Watch Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 22 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	Very true and valid points. And sorry for the grainy response. I've been sweating my ass off out here in Bahrain for too long today.. Adolf was a crazy man, there is no doubt about that. And the submarine war was effective for a while as the allies didn't have good asdic in the beginning. There are many topics about the B4B and There is a consensus that had it gone on much longer, Britain would have surrendered as there was no real way out of it at the time. There was a lot of collateral damage and supplies were dwindling. In the beginning at Dunkirk, he should have either crushed the British army or offered a peace treaty, but neither happened and he is where he is now. A dead man. A dead crazy man. The war could have ended very differently. That is fact. Also the man wasn't the only flaw. His admirals and generals were all vying for power, that and all the misinformation and deceit his own military leaders had lead him to an early and fortunately untimely grave. Honestly, Japan had the worst odds. They should have stuck to invading China.. They were focused on the decisive battle and that never happened for them.. Anyways, I am not disagreeing with you, you merely stated in the above that he should have invested more on the ground than the sea when he had the most advance ground weaponry of the time and was complemented by air power. He was also terrified of the British fleet, and that was a big reason that they invested so heavily in subs. Also the limit on the size and makeup of his fleet didn't help! Still would be nice to work up the OP's main topic about an alternate universe war.. As it was plausible.

08-22-13, 01:49 PM	#4
vanjast Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Somewhere else now Posts: 1,740 Downloads: 825 Uploads: 4	That's the way how a lot of us feel here in ZA... about Nelson Mandela ??? No action, no talk as his ANC proceeded to rape the country, kill opposition, etc.. etc.. Not a peep from him ?? No my friends,.. that realistic history, has also been distorted and hidden from your eyes. A lot of fools still believe the lie.

08-22-13, 03:37 PM	#8
Admiral Halsey Best Admiral in the USN Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: USS Enterprise (CV-6) Posts: 1,740 Downloads: 317 Uploads: 0	When did this thread go from hypothetical WW2 scenarios to talking about Jefferson's slaves?