Mandating the installation of EDRs - Black Boxes

[Wolferz]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Can be called a cliche, but is true. No lie, we got more tolls than the River Styx.

Not as bad as the welcome signs...
WELCOME TO NEW JERSEY
THE GARDEN STATE
YOU BROUGHT MONEY RIGHT?

And the exit signs...
COME BACK SOON!
BRING MORE MONEY!

[AVGWarhawk]

Nothing new here. ECM under dash already read speed, throttle potion, ambient air temp, coolant temp and mass air flow. This is how your car runs folks. This information can be read while the engine is running and car in motion. Or just a idle. A simple ROM in the ECM and that is it. Heck VW ECM records over-revves of the engine. The reason they do this for those that blow their 2.0T by redlining the car will be questioned at the dealer when asking for a new warranty engine.

The little black box is there. It just needs to keep memory...which it does to a certain extent.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I have to wonder...

Ok so my wife likes to watch "real housewives". No I don't think they're real housewives. The title of that show is a crock of BS. Should be more like "Really entitled Diva's". Anyway, are people in New Jersey really anything like what I watched (more like suffered through) in that real housewives series?

Do not let shows like that or the Jersey shore influence you.

I am not your typical NJ person, I was born in the NYC.. So I am a bit outspoken.

First off, the state does not stink. All the refineries that caused that smell were shipped to China and Canada in the 60s. I always wondered why that rumor hung around so long.

Second of all, the Real Housewives and the Jersey shore disgusts anyone with real Italian heritage, those of us who love it, not exploit it. They paint a bad picture for the hardworking folks, who build your roads and bridges, or serve your food. Real working class guys.

I laugh at the NJ jokes, I just hate to see us all painted by scummy tv shows.

Sorry if I derailed.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

I am not your typical NJ person, I was born in the NYC.. So I am a bit outspoken.

Probably talk a lot with your hands going.

I was born in Garden City NY. Out on da island.

[Wolferz]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Nothing new here. ECM under dash already read speed, throttle potion, ambient air temp, coolant temp and mass air flow. This is how your car runs folks. This information can be read while the engine is running and car in motion. Or just a idle. A simple ROM in the ECM and that is it. Heck VW ECM records over-revves of the engine. The reason they do this for those that blow their 2.0T by redlining the car will be questioned at the dealer when asking for a new warranty engine.

The little black box is there. It just needs to keep memory...which it does to a certain extent.

Oh so true. I've dealt with the things since GM first started putting them in their cars. But, you can't really call it a black box because the box is made of aluminum with a circuit board mounted in it. The circuit board has a PROM receptacle where the integrated chip is plugged into it. I don't know for sure how sophisticated they have become over the years but, the early versions didn't store more than trouble codes in memory. To be read by grounding the diagnostic connector and counting the number of times the Check Engine lamp flashed to reveal a trouble code. It was great for tracking down a bad sensor but couldn't reveal much more info than that.

Our tune-up guy had a devil of a time with a new car that would only fire the left bank cylinders of the motor. Replacing the control module with a new one didn't help and he was at his wits end until I suggested that he get another new one off the lot and switch the control modules. Both ran perfectly. A connector issue maybe?

With a true black box recorder in new cars, you wonder how it will affect the driving experience if the thing has a problem that shuts you down and leaves you stranded on the highway or in the middle of traffic.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

Oh so true. I've dealt with the things since GM first started putting them in their cars. But, you can't really call it a black box because the box is made of aluminum with a circuit board mounted in it. The circuit board has a PROM receptacle where the integrated chip is plugged into it. I don't know for sure how sophisticated they have become over the years but, the early versions didn't store more than trouble codes in memory. To be read by grounding the diagnostic connector and counting the number of times the Check Engine lamp flashed to reveal a trouble code. It was great for tracking down a bad sensor but couldn't reveal much more info than that.

Our tune-up guy had a devil of a time with a new car that would only fire the left bank cylinders of the motor. Replacing the control module with a new one didn't help and he was at his wits end until I suggested that he get another new one off the lot and switch the control modules. Both ran perfectly. A connector issue maybe?

With a true black box recorder in new cars, you wonder how it will affect the driving experience if the thing has a problem that shuts you down and leaves you stranded on the highway or in the middle of traffic.

Ah, you are old school like me. Chrysler flashing code. Ford breakout boxes and ALDL on the GM. I was working on the first ROM ECM in the late 70's up to the 90's. The theory is still the same. 14:1 fuel to O2 is still optimal. Today's boxes still do the same but are much more advanced. Wireless throttles, ABS, traction control, rollover prevention, etc. The black boxes always had the ability to to shut you down. Reach 100 or so MPH and the little box cuts your fuel. That function has been around a while. Changing certain perimeters/values in the ECM can add HP or create different shift points. The ECM is very capable of recording events. I do not see it as a costly addition to the ECM that is already recording. Should be a grandfather clause for vehicles already on the road.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Probably talk a lot with your hands going.

I was born in Garden City NY. Out on da island.

You should curse alot more!

What da hell is wrong wit' ya?

Meh forum rules and all, Howard Beach here just south of the Belt.. Home of the Ginzo, land of the free.

The one neighborhood in queens not getting eaten up by gangbanging, for now

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

They can put one in my pick up truck... if they pay for it! Otherwise they can go fish. The EDR will be a pain in the butt for folks driving older vehicles that predate ECMs and ABS and I see it as cost prohibitive in a big way. The article didn't mention any grandfather clause and leaves me to assume a great many questions. Like...
Are they only requiring this on newly manufactured cars?
Are they going to require this on any and all cars now on the road?
Are they going to subsidize the installation of all the necessary electronics and sensors required to make the EDR work as intended?
Are they going to just kick older vehicles off the road for not having it?

Will LEOs be given equipment to plug into a speeding motorists car to prove how fast they were travelling during their trip?

The noblest of intentions don't always pan out in practical applications.
Just more lawmaker stupidity if you ask me.

Also overlooked in CA is the Fast-Pass which is currently monitored "only" strictly for traffic flow pattern analysis along all freeways. Users are given a mylar envelope to place the pass in if they don't wish to be monitored other than in a toll lane or at a toll bridge. How long will that last in a "police state"?

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Gargamel

It's just like the airbag or seatbelt law.

Cars without them will be grandfathered in, new cars will have them. Most already do. How do you think that Progressive Insurance data thingy works? By tapping into your black box.

I think these things are excellent for accident investigation. It helps place the blame on the correct party.

It won't be long before that Progressive Insurance data thingy is mandatory for all insurance companies. And if not mandatory, they'll make you pay a lot more if you don't allow them to tap into it.

Am I weird that I'm more irked about marketers and corporations knowing all about me than the government?

[Wolferz]

I visited New York City...once! A short hop out on Long Island and back to Staten Island. Put it in the rearview mirrors and ain't never been back. Driving a semi through the place is an.... experience I'll not duplicate.

[Wolferz]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

It won't be long before that Progressive Insurance data thingy is mandatory for all insurance companies. And if not mandatory, they'll make you pay a lot more if you don't allow them to tap into it.

Am I weird that I'm more irked about marketers and corporations knowing all about me than the government?

You won't need the Progressive data thingy when they can just download what they want from your EDR after an accident. It has a lot of pros. The only con is it's going to tell on you if you're an aggressive driver who thinks speed limit signs are just suggestions.
Better buy a bicycle.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

You should curse alot more!

What da hell is wrong wit' ya?

Meh forum rules and all, Howard Beach here just south of the Belt.. Home of the Ginzo, land of the free.

The one neighborhood in queens not getting eaten up by gangbanging, for now

We left the island back in 1973. The neighborhood was getting rough. Live in MD since then. My parents are back in Flushing. All be it at the Flushing Cemetery. I will return one day to Flushing Cemetery for a permanent stay. But not yet.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

You won't need the Progressive data thingy when they can just download what they want from your EDR after an accident. It has a lot of pros. The only con is it's going to tell on you if you're an aggressive driver who thinks speed limit signs are just suggestions.
Better buy a bicycle.

I don't think they'll wait for an accident. I'm thinking that thing will phone home if you go faster than 70 mph or take a turn too fast. Next time you check your email: "DING! Your insurance premiums have increased due to your recent driving activity. Slow it down, bucko!"

[Wolferz]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I don't think they'll wait for an accident. I'm thinking that thing will phone home if you go faster than 70 mph or take a turn too fast. Next time you check your email: "DING! Your insurance premiums have increased due to your recent driving activity. Slow it down, bucko!"

They ain't putting ET in my vehicle....EVER!!

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

They ain't putting ET in my vehicle....EVER!!

Wolferz bad. Phone home.