Confederate flag flies again..

[Armistead]

Becoming quite an issue here bouts..

A southern heritage group rents private land right off I-95 near Richmond to fly a large CSA battle flag. Mainly this is in protest of the CSA flag no longer allowed in any manner being flown over any CSA historical public funded forum, museums, landmarks, even Confederate graves. Flag not even allowed during CW celebrations funded by public. Lil strange seeing all the CSA reenactors marching in parade with no flag.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/lo...86b8817e2.html

Thoughts.....

Really going to become an issue of private rights.

[AVGWarhawk]

To me the flag is a not a symbol of heritage. It is a symbol of a very dark spot in US history. The flag is not raised in any historical context that I can see. It will only incite problems. Maybe this is a stretch but flying the flag with swastika over Berlin is on the same level.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Becoming quite an issue here bouts..

A southern heritage group rents private land right off I-95 near Richmond to fly a large CSA battle flag. Mainly this is in protest of the CSA flag no longer allowed in any manner being flown over any CSA historical public funded forum, museums, landmarks, even Confederate graves. Flag not even allowed during CW celebrations funded by public. Lil strange seeing all the CSA reenactors marching in parade with no flag.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/lo...86b8817e2.html

Thoughts.....

Really going to become an issue of private rights.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

To me the flag is a not a symbol of heritage. It is a symbol of a very dark spot in US history. The flag is not raised in any historical context that I can see. It will only incite problems. Maybe this is a stretch but flying the flag with swastika over Berlin is on the same level.

Having been stationed in Mississippi for a bit in my younger years, I can honestly understand both sides of the issue.

On one side, you have "Heritage not hate!"
On the other side, it's viewed as a white supremacist flag.


Which view you take, i think depends a lot on where you were you were raised or live, and the context in which the flag is seen while being used. Unfortunately the flag is used in a very negative context much of the time and because of that it's going to remain as seen as a negative thing by the majority of people.

Edit:
To be honest, I am a bit put off when I see it, because I don't normally see it at all. A year or so ago, my wife and I saw the "stars and bars" on the tail gate of a pickup we happened to get behind while going down a mountain. Dudes riding in the truck bed were wearing overalls and chewing tobacco (as an ex user i know it when i see it). They look like some deep south transplants. Both my wife and I were looking at each other going "Seriously?!". It bothered her seeing that in Utah.

On the other hand it doesn't bother me in the least if i saw the flag over relevant historical sites from the Civil war time period.

Context is key.

[CaptainHaplo]

While the flag is part of a very dark time in our history - its people like the NAACP guy quoted that demonstrates both a lack of knowledge in history and a bit of racism against whites as well...

He should get to know H. K. Edgerton - a former NAACP city president who supports flying the confederate flag. Of course, H.K. also understands the true reasons behind the civil war - which had little to do with slavery - which doesn't fit the needs of the agenda of the esteemed "executive director" of the Virginia NAACP.

For those interested in H.K. and his work - along with significant, documented information on the subject - see:
http://southernheritage411.com/

So - no one noted the racism in the piece? No one noted the comment that anyone supporting the Stars and Bars must be from a "backwater, trailer park, hick town.".... Of course, since that statement came from a black man, it can't be racist, right?

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Of course, H.K. also understands the true reasons behind the civil war - which had little to do with slavery - which doesn't fit the needs of the agenda of the esteemed "executive director" of the Virginia NAACP.

Oh cool, so we're doing this again.

Oh cool, so we're doing this again.

Who is going to link to the historical documents yet again to prove that the line you quoted is rubbish....again

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Thoughts.....

I agree with the banning of the CSA flag being flown from government buildings, but that's old news. If a private citizen can fly a flag of their choosing, then so should a private group.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

While which had little to do with slavery

While that statement may seem innocent to you, to me it amounts to trolling. I know you didn't mean it that way, but every time somebody says that it immediately makes me want to respond, which I can't do without being accused of derailing the thread, and rightly so, but when it gets mentioned in a minor context and stated as a "fact" that is exactly what happens.

Therefore my only response can be to ask you to leave your personal agenda out of a thread in which it is not relevant.

[Jimbuna]

I sincerely hope everyone can stay on the original topic.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Having been stationed in Mississippi for a bit in my younger years, I can honestly understand both sides of the issue.

On one side, you have "Heritage not hate!"
On the other side, it's viewed as a white supremacist flag.


Which view you take, i think depends a lot on where you were you were raised or live, and the context in which the flag is seen while being used. Unfortunately the flag is used in a very negative context much of the time and because of that it's going to remain as seen as a negative thing by the majority of people.

Edit:
To be honest, I am a bit put off when I see it, because I don't normally see it at all. A year or so ago, my wife and I saw the "stars and bars" on the tail gate of a pickup we happened to get behind while going down a mountain. Dudes riding in the truck bed were wearing overalls and chewing tobacco (as an ex user i know it when i see it). They look like some deep south transplants. Both my wife and I were looking at each other going "Seriously?!". It bothered her seeing that in Utah.

On the other hand it doesn't bother me in the least if i saw the flag over relevant historical sites from the Civil war time period.

Context is key.

I understand both sides as well. I certainly agree with the black man that spoke in the video in the link. Heritage or hate? In our town are numerous rednecks with the flag in their yard and bumper stickers 'the south will rise again"

However, I love history. I don't even get into the heritage and pride thing, what my ancestors did is simply history to me, something I want to know and understand. I love the flavor of history, it's symbols, customs, etc. I love studying black history as well. Obvious, the greater part of history is controlled and funded by the govt. When it comes to CSA historical sites, why hide the history because some of it offends.

What if groups of indians started mass complaining about the US flag, all the statues of presidents and generals that partook in the genocide of their tribes? The hypocrisy of freeing one people of color, only to commit genocide and enslave another. Would we remove all that history as well?

It is about context. To me, it's not about southern pride or heritage, it's history. It is strange to me to go to a big CSA historical event sponsored by the govt. or held on public land and not see this part of history. The last Stonewall celebration parade, no Confederate flags allowed. I honestly saw few blacks, but seemed they were more there to report any person that unravelled a CSA flag.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Therefore my only response can be to ask you to leave your personal agenda out of a thread in which it is not relevant.

Its cool Steve - its not so much a personal agenda as something I think people need to take time to look at all the facts. But yes, a discussion on it could derail the thread.

What I note is that the objection to the flag by the NAACP director is that it raises a racist, "backward" viewpoint. Yet, no one seems to take that same person to task for racially insulting those having a different opinion on the flag and its meaning.

After all - I have never heard anyone but whites called "hicks" and what amounts to "Trailer Trash". Yet he gets a pass - because he is supposedly "anti-racist".

[Simmy]

That flag is a part of history, as almost all flags are.
In America you can fly a Nazi flag but not a Confederate flag?
Somehow that doesn't make much sense.

[Wolferz]

The Stars and Bars are hanging right behind my chair. In the center of this flag a serpent is pictured and the words Don't Tread on Me are printed across the bottom. Not because I'm racist but because it's part of my heritage.

There are those who say we in America are not living under a dictatorship. I beg to differ when someone can dictate whether I can fly that flag or not.
If some see it as a symbol of slavery, then they are symbol minded and of no concern to me. If it insults them well, insult can't be given unless taken.

I will fly any flag I please as long as I observe proper etiquette and fly the Stars and Stripes above it. That should leave no room for pissing and moaning about it by anyone.
There are many immigrants living in my area who proudly display the flag of their country of origin. Both on their homes and businesses. Most of them fail to display the Stars and Stripes like they're ashamed of it or something. Or they don't know or care about proper flag etiquette.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Simmy

That flag is a part of history, as almost all flags are.
In America you can fly a Nazi flag but not a Confederate flag?
Somehow that doesn't make much sense.

Well I guess you could fly a Nazi flag, but you'd probably regret the decision.

And the "heritage not hate" argument is tired. If your heritage involves going to war to retain the right to own slaves, then that part of your heritage sucks and shouldn't be celebrated.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Armistead

However, I love history. I don't even get into the heritage and pride thing, what my ancestors did is simply history to me, something I want to know and understand.

My sentiments exactly. July 24 is the anniversary of the day the Mormon pioneers entered the Salt Lake valley. I make a point of asking people "The Pioneers came here to escape from the United States. That's fine, but why are you flying the American flag and not the Utah State flag?"