wolfpacks...got some working in RSRD...sorta

[Bubblehead1980]

A major part missing from SH 4 from day one was presence of US/Japanese subs in the pacific. Luckily some modders made AI IJN subs, US fleetboats and German U boats.I have added on this and put them in my mod(an expansion for RSRD) I have been building for a while.Have Japanese subs in various places such as off coast of US in early war, off Hawaii, in the sea lanes used by US subs, in key areas at right times.Some are random, some are specific such as the three subs sunk by USS Batfish off Luzon in Feb 1945, can replicate this famous patrol(I did) to the exact minute.

Anyways, another thing missing esp given how large and well protected late war convoys are, well are other US fleetboats attacking. I wondered how enemy escorts would treat AI fleetboats. I picked a specific convoy( USS Barb and others attacked) I added to RSRD in August 30/31 1944 in Luzon Straits to try this out on.I had two AI fleet boats placed along path of convoy and since they cant submerge, night surface attack.I timed it so they would move in and once detected, escorts went after them, leaving my side of convoy unprotected as merchants slowed and zigged towards me, I attacked with two torpedoes to each ship, two mid sized freigters, one large tanker, all caught fire, tanker exploded, 3 ships down.Turned stern tubes and fired, two more hits in a large transport, a DE rushed in a max speed, I ran off.

So pseudo pack tactics seem possible but of course they lack offensive capability.They also are essentially sacrificed, at least one was gunned down by escorts, others reached their turning point and sped away to their "end point" where they disappeared, ie simulate they decided to dive.

Anyway with the ability who could get them to fire a couple torpedoes? such as the PT boats can fire AI torpedoes? This would be great, its way beyond my knowledge(adding them to pt boats one time per instructions worked, kinda of but drove me crazy) but could really add to the sim.

I am going to try this again but put them submerged(can make them submerged or on surface, but cant switch.) I added an AI sub representing the Argonaut so if player is using Narwhal in August 42 and assigned to the Makin Atoll mission, Argonaut departs Pearl Harbor on proper date, arrives off Makin at right date time, then a submerged fleetboat stays in area until time to surface.A new one spawns, moves up , spawns spec ops rafts, then leaves area and "dives again" until time to pick them up, then "surfaces" and when time is right, heads back to Pearl.


Also random US subs traveling around at different times and specific fleetboats operating throughout the pacific.They enter their areas, some "dive" others just patrol, then return home.Just adds to immersion, would love for them to have the ability to attack something. Imagine attacking a convoy, not knowing another US sub is in area, suddenly a ship blows up, could be interesting.Of course, if enemy subs had torpedoes, could be en route back home after pearl harbor and have to worry about this.

I decided to try this out since no one else has as far as I know.Anyone interested who has some ideas/pointers/ etc, feel free.

[U505995]

As far as I know, the only AI units capable of launching actual torpedoes that will hit their target and explode are torpedo bombers. Otherwise things like Pt boats and AI subs fire dummy torpedoes.

[c13Garrison]

Sounds awesome and fascinating, but coding is way beyond my ken. Much support to you though! Good luck

[Armistead]

Where is the US functioning sub mod? I know of the Jap ones that can be added to traffic, but wasn't aware someone made a US AI working sub you can add in the game.

You can add subs in the game submerged, but as I recall, they eventually sink, unless you put them in shallow water.

[TorpX]

Sounds great Bubblehead. I agree this would add a lot to game.

Someone, I forget who, was experimenting with getting DD's to launch torpedoes, and worked out most of the problems. I don't understand how these things work, but they did. IIRC, the only thing he couldn't solve was the erratic torpedo launching. Wind or waves would make them go all over the place.

I am going to try this again but put them submerged(can make them submerged or on surface, but cant switch.)

I didn't know this was possible. How did you figure this out?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon U-48

As far as I know, the only AI units capable of launching actual torpedoes that will hit their target and explode are torpedo bombers. Otherwise things like Pt boats and AI subs fire dummy torpedoes.

No, the torpedoes adde to pt boats would explode, their aim just wasnt great...i put them in surigao strait during leyte gulf battle, they engaged the IJN BB force(per history) but out of i imagine _torpedoes fire between the swarm of boats, 3 or 4 hit. This was a while back, actually been researching the forums on how to add them to pt boats DD's again, may see if can figure out something for AI subs.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Sounds great Bubblehead. I agree this would add a lot to game.

Someone, I forget who, was experimenting with getting DD's to launch torpedoes, and worked out most of the problems. I don't understand how these things work, but they did. IIRC, the only thing he couldn't solve was the erratic torpedo launching. Wind or waves would make them go all over the place.

I didn't know this was possible. How did you figure this out?

When you add a random unit to the layer and select a submarine...notice i think its in the left hand side, where set the speed is on the left, on the right itll say depth(like anything its on metric) so if want it at 12 meter under you enter -12.Problem is when you make a waypoint, itll just keep it at that depth and cant adjust it.However, it does work as I tracked the "Argonaut" off Makin in August 42, its how knew it was near although submerged.Bounced a sonar ping off it once in a while.Also, have encountered submerged IJN subs i put in, tried to sink one that was at periscope depth but essentially firing on sound bearings only is tough.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Where is the US functioning sub mod? I know of the Jap ones that can be added to traffic, but wasn't aware someone made a US AI working sub you can add in the game.

You can add subs in the game submerged, but as I recall, they eventually sink, unless you put them in shallow water.

There is an AI fleetboat in TMO. Needs some deck guns and watch crew added to it but it will steer a course properly, has the engine sounds, reacts enemy etc.

Check the TMO roster/submarine, youll see AI fleetboat.When adding via ME, just select us ships, scroll down and will see AI fleetboat.Just looks like a Gato/Balao class.Needs some attention like i said , spurce it up but overall its great.Would love to see all the classes of submarine functioning, but a bit above my paygrade.

My goal is to have things like this, come together with the traffic and better ability to pull off realistic night surface attacks, will definitely add to the game.

[Armistead]

Seems when I tried it the fleetboat wouldn't hold speed, no matter what you set it, it stops to zero and just sits there. However, been a long time, but seems in my setup there was no US AI sub, just a US fleet boat and then the several classes. Are you referring to the US Fleet Class platform. Not sure I tried that one.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Seems when I tried it the fleetboat wouldn't hold speed, no matter what you set it, it stops to zero and just sits there. However, been a long time, but seems in my setup there was no US AI sub, just a US fleet boat and then the several classes. Are you referring to the US Fleet Class platform. Not sure I tried that one.

Yes, have to use the "US fleet class submarine", the others dont work.Would love to make the different classes work.

[airsangel]

Bubblehead1980 love what you just said....actually would make the most real immersion in ww2

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Seems when I tried it the fleetboat wouldn't hold speed, no matter what you set it, it stops to zero and just sits there.

This is what happened when I tried to put a IJN sub into a mission. I don't recall what results I got with US subs. This was with RFB, though.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by TorpX

This is what happened when I tried to put a IJN sub into a mission. I don't recall what results I got with US subs. This was with RFB, though.

Well, the bad thing they don't evade and just die if attacked by surface ships. You can use the Sen Toku mod for a working sub, but have to add it into the traffic layers. I put a few in RSRD dropping off midget subs. Course they don't drop them, I just spawn the midgets near them. Don't see why you can't use the working IJN sub in the game. I'll look into it.

[merc4ulfate]

I'm not so sure about an AI subs not going from surface to submerged. Maybe it is only a US Fleetboat issue.

If you could look into the U-Boat side you will find many Russian Submarines when fired upon with deck guns will submerged to escape. I have seen them do this to me so often that I have stopped firing at them with the deck gun and instead only use torpedoes now.

Another thing I would like to see is TMO, RSRD, and RFB also have playable U-boats for the Pacific. They were there so why not be able to switch sides so instead of coming across an AI U-Boat you could actually be that U-boat passing through the Luzon Straits, hiding in the Bungo for unwary US Naval vessles or taking your chances by slipping into a harbor or two?

I have never looked into it but isnt there a multplayer aspect to this game??

I used to play 688 Hunter Killer in a virtual Navy back in the 90's and it was so much fun to be able to play against other humans. AI's are predictable but against another human the simulation became very real and very personal. Some missions were COOP and some were simply hunter and kill ... my favorite mission was one where there were 8 submarines in the water in close proximity and the goal was last man standing. It took me 6 hours to hunt down the last man but we called it a draw since we both had done such a good job of avoiding detection.

What a fabulous mission it would be to have U-Boat and Fleet Boats in a mission together and all human controlled. One protecting the convoy by listening for the enemy the other risking everything to come in for the kill.

[Armistead]

None of the AI boats go from surfaced to submerged, no trigger to make them do so.

I did try the US fleetboat and it does keep speed on the surface, even shoots it's deck gun, just has no crew and needs zones added. It got in a running gun battle with Bungo Pete and won.