Another one bites the dust (787)

Tchocky · 07-12-13, 12:36 PM

It was already busy in here, then everyone heading for Heathrow needed a new place to land. I'll be glad when this shift is over.

Oberon · 07-12-13, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

It was already busy in here, then everyone heading for Heathrow needed a new place to land. I'll be glad when this shift is over.

Aye, last thing you needed. At least it's open again now, but the backlog must be horrendous.
When you're done, unwind with this if you haven't already heard it:

Jimbuna · 07-12-13, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Aye, last thing you needed. At least it's open again now, but the backlog must be horrendous.
When you're done, unwind with this if you haven't already heard it:

One of the greatest

Skybird · 07-12-13, 02:56 PM

1. Servicestaff mindlessly leaving behind a burning cigarette
2. Sabotage
3. Electric system, batteries

What option shall it be for you to bet your money on?

BrucePartington · 07-12-13, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

1. Servicestaff mindlessly leaving behind a burning cigarette
2. Sabotage
3. Electric system, batteries

What option shall it be for you to bet your money on?

I'd go with the 3rd being the most likely, although the 1st is also plausible.

There are more electrical wires running along the cabin of a commercial aircraft than most people realise. One possible hazardous area is the galley, where flight attendants have to heat up meals and water for coffee and tea. That takes a lot of wattage, which in turn creates heat and fries insulation.

Oberon · 07-12-13, 04:48 PM

Skybird · 07-13-13, 05:45 AM

Almost missed by the news is that at the same time the event at Heathrow took place, another 787 by Thompson Airways was in trouble, too, and enroute to Florida returned in midflight to its airport at Manchester. Reports by passengers indicated they had problems with - you guess what: electrical systems aboard, indicated by malfunctions with the toilets, which also are electrically run, as are the windows (to darken them) and so many other things aboard this over-electrified jet.

The 787 must be the first burn-by-wire jet in history.

That thing must be grounded. It is not mature. The electrical conception is a shot into the oven, as we say in German: a fail. I would not fly with it, that is for sure. I rate the risk at the same ranks like a drunk Russian province pilot.

Tchocky · 07-12-13, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Aye, last thing you needed. At least it's open again now, but the backlog must be horrendous.
When you're done, unwind with this if you haven't already heard it:

That's one to bookmark cheers

Just home, its very much beer o'clock.

It was during a fairly busy period for our Western sectors that we got word about Heathrow. Details were few but you explain to the pilots what you know and what their options are. Leave the decision of where to go to the Captain. They make their decision and then it's up to us to get them there. We get word from London about how much space is available and how many diversions certain fields can accept. Gatwick for example is single-runway so it fills up fast. A busy traffic situation becomes busier quickly, workload goes up very fast. Heathrow usually operates at around 99% capacity so the effect of an incident there multiplies out faster than at most hubs.

Plenty of Heathrow traffic headed into Schiphol or Brussels, the BA Berlin flight turned around and went back to Berlin, I don't know if the crew had enough hours to get up in the air later once Heathrow opened. Everything went as it should and downstream sectors were relaying the information to Heathrow inbounds so they could plan well in advance. Still though, busy period

As for what caused it, no idea. Pictures look like fire either ate through the top of the fuselage (nowhere near the batteries) or possibly it's just the paint peeling and bubbling from the heat. I'm not sure how CFRP reacts to fire. Not good for Boeing.

HundertzehnGustav · 07-12-13, 03:35 PM

bites the dust?
goes up in flames!

Oberon · 07-12-13, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

That's one to bookmark cheers

Just home, its very much beer o'clock.

It was during a fairly busy period for our Western sectors that we got word about Heathrow. Details were few but you explain to the pilots what you know and what their options are. Leave the decision of where to go to the Captain. They make their decision and then it's up to us to get them there. We get word from London about how much space is available and how many diversions certain fields can accept. Gatwick for example is single-runway so it fills up fast. A busy traffic situation becomes busier quickly, workload goes up very fast. Heathrow usually operates at around 99% capacity so the effect of an incident there multiplies out faster than at most hubs.

Plenty of Heathrow traffic headed into Schiphol or Brussels, the BA Berlin flight turned around and went back to Berlin, I don't know if the crew had enough hours to get up in the air later once Heathrow opened. Everything went as it should and downstream sectors were relaying the information to Heathrow inbounds so they could plan well in advance. Still though, busy period

As for what caused it, no idea. Pictures look like fire either ate through the top of the fuselage (nowhere near the batteries) or possibly it's just the paint peeling and bubbling from the heat. I'm not sure how CFRP reacts to fire. Not good for Boeing.

Bet you folks will be breathing a sigh of relief whenever we get either Boris Island or the new runway at Heathrow sorted. I've seen the flights at Heathrow, it's like watching a clock, no sooner has one touched down then another one is on finals, and one behind that, it's like a giant conveyor belt from ground to the sky, absolutely amazing and a credit to the unseen conductors on the ATC.

Jimbuna · 07-12-13, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Bet you folks will be breathing a sigh of relief whenever we get either Boris Island or the new runway at Heathrow sorted. I've seen the flights at Heathrow, it's like watching a clock, no sooner has one touched down then another one is on finals, and one behind that, it's like a giant conveyor belt from ground to the sky, absolutely amazing and a credit to the unseen conductors on the ATC.

Bloody right, every time I fly (usually from Terminal 5) I'm amazed at the constant low of traffic.

Gargamel · 08-15-13, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Aye, last thing you needed. At least it's open again now, but the backlog must be horrendous.
When you're done, unwind with this if you haven't already heard it:

As a sim pilot, I know just enough to appreciate this. I thoroughly enjoyed this, thank you.

What year was that done?

Skybird · 08-16-13, 06:31 PM

Boeing has called for all 787 customers so far to immediately check all their Dreamliners delivered so far over the wrong wiring in the fire extinguisher system.

mako88sb · 08-17-13, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Boeing has called for all 787 customers so far to immediately check all their Dreamliners delivered so far over the wrong wiring in the fire extinguisher system.

Obviously this is a pretty ridiculous mistake to make and it seems inconceivable that a company with Boeings long history doesn't have the appropriate final inspection to have kept this from happening. Of course they do have something in place but what was different about the 787 that allowed such a error to occur? Or has something similar happened in the past?

Skybird · 08-17-13, 05:28 AM

The 787 is the mostr electrified jet ever. Classical, hydraulic, mechnaical systems have been repalced with e-system and e-motors to a much wider degree than in any other airliner in service today or in the near future.

They wennt too fast, too far ahead with that. And with a misdesigned electrical and especially battery system. The battery problems result from the hugely increased demand for electrical power aboard these airplanes. They needed much more batteries to be build in, and with higher capacity if possible. But the batteries they used, did not fulfill that demand. Plus their technology in itself is a more risky technology than other battery types (with lower capacity).

And so they are where they are.

You will never see me boarding any of these planes. I do not trust the design by its very philosophy and components chosen.

07-12-13, 12:36 PM	#1
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	It was already busy in here, then everyone heading for Heathrow needed a new place to land. I'll be glad when this shift is over. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

07-12-13, 02:56 PM	#4
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,650 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	1. Servicestaff mindlessly leaving behind a burning cigarette 2. Sabotage 3. Electric system, batteries What option shall it be for you to bet your money on? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-13-13, 05:45 AM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,650 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Almost missed by the news is that at the same time the event at Heathrow took place, another 787 by Thompson Airways was in trouble, too, and enroute to Florida returned in midflight to its airport at Manchester. Reports by passengers indicated they had problems with - you guess what: electrical systems aboard, indicated by malfunctions with the toilets, which also are electrically run, as are the windows (to darken them) and so many other things aboard this over-electrified jet. The 787 must be the first burn-by-wire jet in history. That thing must be grounded. It is not mature. The electrical conception is a shot into the oven, as we say in German: a fail. I would not fly with it, that is for sure. I rate the risk at the same ranks like a drunk Russian province pilot. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-12-13, 03:35 PM	#9
HundertzehnGustav Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lux, betw. G, B and F Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	bites the dust? goes up in flames! __________________ In conclusion: SH3 is the shizzle, yo. -Frau Kaleun Another negative about using your deck gun is that you are definately DETECTED, which has long term effects on your relationship with aircraft. -snestorm

08-16-13, 06:31 PM	#13
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,650 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Boeing has called for *all* 787 customers so far to immediately check all their Dreamliners delivered so far over the wrong wiring in the fire extinguisher system. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-12-13, 04:48 PM	#6
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20

08-17-13, 05:28 AM	#15
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,650 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The 787 is the mostr electrified jet ever. Classical, hydraulic, mechnaical systems have been repalced with e-system and e-motors to a much wider degree than in any other airliner in service today or in the near future. They wennt too fast, too far ahead with that. And with a misdesigned electrical and especially battery system. The battery problems result from the hugely increased demand for electrical power aboard these airplanes. They needed much more batteries to be build in, and with higher capacity if possible. But the batteries they used, did not fulfill that demand. Plus their technology in itself is a more risky technology than other battery types (with lower capacity). And so they are where they are. You will never see me boarding any of these planes. I do not trust the design by its very philosophy and components chosen. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.