Biggest welfare queen on the planet?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And how high do you think it should be? $10? $20? How much to think their prices should go up to cover that cost? Should a Big Mac be $10? Have you even thought about this, or are you just buying into what people tell you?

Have you noticed burgers at most of these places are much smaller? Heck, I ate at Wendy's the other day, been a long time and was shocked their burgers are about half the beef as before, but price was up.

Let's face it, Americans are competing with 3rd world wages and benefits and millions Americans have to take these jobs, but since they don't pay the bills, the have to use govt programs, food stamps, etc. The fact is as wages and benefits decrease across the board for Americans, the govt will keep growing bigger regarding needs programs to make up the difference.
If businesses can't pay a living wage, expect bigger govt, more debt and higher taxes.... or we can wait until millions of Americans are rioting in the streets as they are in Europe.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

The good times never end for the fat cats it is rigged so that they always come out ahead.Something similar to the Khmer Rouges Year Zero would be the only thing that would change that and something like that is never going to happen in the US.

Look at the past 100 years of US history the song always remains the same the fat cats always remain fat numerous recessions and depressions have occurred since the turn of the 20th century(1900-1999) yet nothing really changes.Sure laws and regulations may change yet bad times still occur.Of course not every recession is completely unavoidable.

The economic model has changed since about 1980. The global economy ruined America. We were all told it would be a good thing, but it was a big lie. All the regulations were stacked in favor of corporate America, not Americans.

Look back before they could send our jobs out in mass, big business had to compete for Americans, wages were decent, most had good medical insurance and many even had that thing called a pension. This issured wealth was more spread and created a mass middle class and kept govt. smaller. NOw,we have an elite class of uber rich that hold 70-80% of all real wealth. Worse, now the majority of Americans want big govt, social programs, healthcare, etc., which is creating a national debt that can't be substained.

[Wolferz]

Armistead and Stealhead have reached the crux of the whole matter.
I applaud you gentlemen.
Steve was accusatory. Shame on you.

Personally, I couldn't care less what Wally World does or doesn't do for their work force. They at least provide some jobs. If their employees can't make ends meet, they should either tighten their belts or get some edumacation and find a better job.
You could say that working at Wal-Mart is akin to working for a state government. They pay you just enough to keep you alive and enslaved with only a small chance of being promoted. Pay increases are few and far between and are usually insulting.

I do not own a bridge. There isn't a salesman alive who could sell me one. They aren't smart enough.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Armistead

The economic model has changed since about 1980. The global economy ruined America. We were all told it would be a good thing, but it was a big lie. All the regulations were stacked in favor of corporate America, not Americans.

Look back before they could send our jobs out in mass, big business had to compete for Americans, wages were decent, most had good medical insurance and many even had that thing called a pension. This issured wealth was more spread and created a mass middle class and kept govt. smaller. NOw,we have an elite class of uber rich that hold 70-80% of all real wealth. Worse, now the majority of Americans want big govt, social programs, healthcare, etc., which is creating a national debt that can't be substained.

I disagree entirely of course economics have changed over the years that fact is largely irrelevant.Because economies are constantly changing.

Surely you jest when you say that the wealth on the fat cat level was ever shared equally.There has always been an elite class of uber rich and a much larger class of poor the middle class is the one that is the most short lived it was only a sizable class for a few generations from around the end of WWII up.

The real killer was the increased focus on pleasing the share holder by maximizing profit no matter the effect on employees.Pensions only became common place during WWII they where used as an insensitive to satisfy workers because the government enacted wage freezes during the war in other words they made up for pay increases which where not permitted thanks to the wage freezes.As far back as the mid 1960's companies began reducing or stopped offering pensions.That in and of itself did not kill the American manufacturing sector it was the focus on ever increasing profits.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

Steve was accusatory. Shame on you.

Why should I be ashamed. Who did I accuse? I answered accusations with challenges. I don't see you taking anyone else to task, and the general trend of the thread was accusatory. I challenged the attitude, and no one has yet answered the challenge.

I've had years of seeing posters on lampposts and posts in forums, all saying identically the same thing: "Walmart is evil!. They only buy Chinese products!" I accuse, yes. I accuse people of having their own version of PC. Call it SC - Social Correctness. What I asked is for anyone to show that Wal*Mart is doing anything any other company doesn't do, and then why they seem to have a personal grudge against only one corporation.

Armistead and Stealhead have reached the crux of the whole matter.

Yes they did. But the thread wasn't about what is wrong with America, or even corporate America. The OP was a condemnation of one company for seemingly being exceptionally evil in their horrible treatment of employes. I say that's wrong. Has anyone showed where I'm wrong?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I disagree entirely of course economics have changed over the years that fact is largely irrelevant.Because economies are constantly changing.

Surely you jest when you say that the wealth on the fat cat level was ever shared equally.There has always been an elite class of uber rich and a much larger class of poor the middle class is the one that is the most short lived it was only a sizable class for a few generations from around the end of WWII up.

The real killer was the increased focus on pleasing the share holder by maximizing profit no matter the effect on employees.Pensions only became common place during WWII they where used as an insensitive to satisfy workers because the government enacted wage freezes during the war in other words they made up for pay increases which where not permitted thanks to the wage freezes.As far back as the mid 1960's companies began reducing or stopped offering pensions.That in and of itself did not kill the American manufacturing sector it was the focus on ever increasing profits.

I basically agree with you, but I never said wealth was equally shared, I said it was more spread out. If you look at studies, just back to the 70's about 50% of Americans held 80% of real wealth, today about 20% hold all real wealth, in about 20 years, about 10% will hold 80% of all real wealth in America. We will become a two class society unless we adopt a complete new economic model that recreates a middle class.

The county that I live in was once a large manufacturing county, great wages, benefits, pensions. In the last 20 years we went from having 62 large mills to now we have two and a few smaller ones. Now it's a poor town of sorts, 40% of kids get free school lunch. Not to mention we have numerous sq miles of large plants just rotting away, several converted to low income apartments.

Economics do change, but they're not changing to the benefit of Americans because we had no plan for a global economy. American wages continue to decrease, even as profits rise for corporations, but that can only last so long. Any idiot can see our economy is gonna implode again, nothing has been fixed.

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And how high do you think it should be? $10? $20? How much to think their prices should go up to cover that cost? Should a Big Mac be $10? Have you even thought about this, or are you just buying into what people tell you?

I don't know, and to be honest, don't care about the minimum wage issue. But I do know that when a company is paying its workers above minimum wage for a "basic" job that anyone can do, the fact that its employees need welfare should not be blamed on the company.

Corporate America is rolling in money, but they're many signs the good times could be coming to an end again. Corporations have cut wages, benefits, about everything to increase profits, but because of that, Americans can't buy their goods like before. Eventually this tactic will backfire in a big way.

I had to hurry to China a week ago because of a family emergency. However, from what I see, your mentality has to change. America is NO LONGER the market where many brands are pushing their product the hardest.

From my personal experience, prices in America are the lowest I can find, at the big department stores like Macys and JC Penny, you find that the famous brands are selling for much cheaper compared to major department stores in Europe and Asia. The same brands are much more expensive on the London high street. But compared to prices in Shanghai, Harrods looks cheap!

I was in China for a week, and during the time, my dad's friend (a huge importer) said that the margins for the major brands in Asia is MUCH higher than in the US. 1 sale in Asia makes the same profit as 5 sales in America. But Asians like American brands, thus for many of them, they would much rather focus on Asia than the US.


I would actually say, decimated sales in the US matters less than the increased cost for many of these brands.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

As I said, do you read the label on everything you buy?

Actually, I do. Seriously. I'll even ask the guy at the store, "I know it's a crazy question, and I'm pretty sure what your answer is going to be, but I have to ask, do you have anything like this made in the US?"

I always buy American when i can. I recently replaced my belt that I've been wearing for years and years. Bought it from these guys.
https://www.moonshineleather.com/

Bought a new pair of boots at Cabellas made by these guys last year.
http://www.chippewaboots.com/
Picked up some new socks while I was at it. Those were made in the US too.

Bought this had in the last 6 months
http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/Pro...=HT+22524&ct=e

It ain't always cheap, but if you find a good American made product that's going to last you awhile, it's worth it and saves you money in the long run. I'm still looking for jeans and T shirts made here, and when I find them, I'll buy those too when i can afford it.

EDIT:
As an aside, if congress passes that internet sales tax bill, it's going to kill many small businesses.

[Wolferz]

Try Motor City Denim Ducimus.

http://www.motorcitydenimco.com/#

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

It ain't always cheap

That's an understatement. One of those pairs of boots cost more than I spend on clothes in five years! I recently bought my first new belt in a couple of decades. Seven bucks at my local Sutherland's lumber and hardware store.

The last pair of jeans I bought came from Wal*Mart. Yes they were made in Mexico. They cost me $10.

I can only wish I was rich like you guys.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Personally, as a consumer, i would rather spend my money on domestically made goods. At least then I know my dollar is going to a local community and honest hardworking people.

Ah yes because clearly the only honest hard working people in the world exist in the United States.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

That's an understatement. One of those pairs of boots cost more than I spend on clothes in five years!

Same here. The thing is, when I guy something, I wear it for YEARS. I have one set of shoes I wear every day. That's it. I have one belt I wear every day. My philosophy is this. You can spend 40 dollars on some chinese made crap that will only last you 6 months. Or you can spend 140 dollars on something that might last you 6 years.

I recently bought my first new belt in a couple of decades. Seven bucks at my local Sutherland's lumber and hardware store.

If it was a 20 year old belt, it was probably made here and you just didn't realize it. I have all sorts of stuff that I have had for several decades, that was made here. Which is why I think i think it has lasted so long.

The last pair of jeans I bought came from Wal*Mart. Yes they were made in Mexico. They cost me $10.

Better Mexico then China.

I can only wish I was rich like you guys.

I make 14 dollars an hour. I'm hardly rich.

Originally Posted by Rilder

Ah yes because clearly the only honest hard working people in the world exist in the United States.

I don't care about other countries. Though I'm sure people wherever work hard, the money we spend on goods from places like walmart sure as hell isn't going to the people who make those goods. The money spent at places like walmart goes to lining some rich ass CEO's pocket who give their employees crap no matter how hard they work. At least by not shopping at walmart and spending my money elsewhere, i know my money is going to be closer to the workers and the community.

I don't care about other countries. Though I'm sure people wherever work hard, the money we spend on goods from places like walmart sure as hell isn't going to the people who make those goods. The money spent at places like walmart goes to lining some rich ass CEO's pocket who give their employees crap no matter how hard they work. At least by not shopping at walmart and spending my money elsewhere, i know my money is going to be closer to the workers and the community.

So you give your money to Warren Buffet and his multinational conglomerate instead.

[AVGWarhawk]

I don't shop Walmart. I did mention that right

[Wolferz]

Here's a suggestion boys. Now, mind you, it's only a suggestion.
Sell your soul to the devil for riches and comfort during your mortal existence. That's what the fat cats have done.
In case it went un-noticed, the thread topic had a question mark on the end of the title. Why should I be accused of making accusations against Wal-Mart?

I don't care what they do to stay in business. I only have a problem with amoral behavior. Something I was treated to by numerous employers my entire working lifetime.
Now I'm disabled and unable to work. A situation beyond my control that peeves me to no end. Oh well.
I just read the other day that the Social Security Disability fund will be broke by 2016. Was this caused by too many recipients or too many jobs sent to other nations with no way to make up a shortfall in FICA taxes from lost jobs?

It seems to me that it has become a lesson in class warfare. Kill the middle class to create a two class system. The haves and the wants. Is it amoral for Corporate greed to be doing this to us? You bet it is! Wally World is just one of many who are promoting it.
The greedy corporations are practicing a self destructive paradigm, because eventually there will be no customers left to buy the crap labeled Hecho e Mexico or Made in *insert Asian country of choice here*.

Maybe it's time for me to buy a 3D printer and start churning out weapons.