Boy Scouts of America votes to ease ban on gay members

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I was in the scouts in the 70's. It may just be the camps we attended that had separate showers. Or, boys being boys, did not shower because we did not have to!

And yes, thoughts would cross my mind if a openly gay scout leader was wandering off into the woods with my kid. Even my kid might have reservations about it. Then again, teenagers today seem to be more accepting of the gay and lesbian community. I have two teenage girls. They do not really frown on it at all. More so accept and live with it.

Well, we both know we wouldn't send our daughters out camping with a male leader......because of sexual issues and risk. It's a tough issue, having the same body parts, but same sex attraction.

Again, I have no problems with gays, but I do take issue that would cause sexual tension between children and adults.

[Tchocky]

Would those concerned be happy with a female scout leader in charge of male scouts?

(hypothetical mixed-gender scouting association)

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Would those concerned be happy with a female scout leader in charge of male scouts?

(hypothetical mixed-gender scouting association)

No, same issue. Don't get me wrong, we had scout leaders and scout mothers, but the scout mothers never came around in our tents, showers, etc.

If we're gonna have gay scout male leaders, then they should follow the same protocol as a scout mother. However, they play seperate rolls. The issue is simply sexual tension shouldn't be a part of this activity, because scouts often have to expose their sexuality.

To me this is obvious, I wouldn't let my daughter travel, camp or sleep with a male leader because of sexual tension, nor would I let my son do the same with a gay male or s8 female. Scouts should be as sexually neutral as possible.

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Would those concerned be happy with a female scout leader in charge of male scouts?

(hypothetical mixed-gender scouting association)

You mean like a Den Mother? I had one of those but that was well before puberty so it's not the same thing.

The reason we separate genders post puberty is because of sexuality pure and simple. If you put large numbers of people in that position there will always be problems of that nature.

They are basically creating the same situation by allowing open homosexuality. There will be problems and in the case of the Boy Scouts I fear it may be fatal to the organization. We'll see.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

You mean like a Den Mother? I had one of those but that was well before puberty so it's not the same thing.

The reason we separate genders post puberty is because of sexuality pure and simple. If you put large numbers of people in that position there will always be problems of that nature.

They are basically creating the same situation by allowing open homosexuality. There will be problems and in the case of the Boy Scouts I fear it may be fatal to the organization. We'll see.

My mom was a den mother. That was cub scouts.

[garren]

But there's a division of sexes for a reason, or so I thought. Most people are straight and don't want to feel uncomfortable knowing that their private parts might be getting looked at by the opposite sex. Now straight boys have to feel uncomfortable being around other boys who might be eyeing their private parts when they shower or go to the restroom. That's not really fair to straight boys is it? Not like they are allowed to go into the female restroom and make them feel uncomfortable.

So, I feel like if we are moving to an "anything goes" type of society then I think it's time we get rid of his and her bathrooms altogether and just have integrated bathrooms and integrated showering as well. This whole "us and them" isn't promoting equality anyways. Just making one group feel superior to another. If we can tell straight boys to "get over it" when it comes to their concerns for personal comfort then we should be telling females the same thing when it comes to their concerns about males seeing them naked as well.

It's 2013 (does that even matter? I hear this so often as being an excuse for change.) and I can't believe they can integrate women into combat roles and onboard submarines at the snap of a finger but men and women can't share a common restroom in 2013 while gays can with straight people. What's the concern? Get over it already people. Lose your morality cause nobody believes in God anymore or the bible cause Barack Obama is our new messiah and we all must worship him and all the "progress" he's bringing! Before long we will be just like all the other 3rd world countries and that's great because America needs to share the power with the rest of the world cause we're all equals and nobody's country should hold power over another and we should all be free to walk around this world naked and have sex with anybody we want in public places and with non-humans as well and with trees and rocks and insects.

And while we're at it I think we should be accepting of men marrying more than one wife and women marrying more than one husband and all sorts of other formerly "deviant" acts. It's obvious nobody cares about the bible anymore or what it says. Anything and everything should go from this point forward. Don't hold back. Be as perverted as you wish to be cause government run public schools have taught us that evolution is what is real and that there is no God and that the bible is just a fiction book.

Want to marry your dog or have sex with it - go for it and get a tax break for it too. Nobody should be able to ever tell you no or that you're disgusting again. Everybody's a winner in a progressive liberal world. There are no losers. That's oppression and offensive to YOUR personal views and way of life. Want to marry your daughter and breed with her? Go for it. Break her in and make a real woman out of her. Want to breastfeed your 17 year old son and show him how to pleasure a woman with his mouth? You're such a good mom! That's how you raise a real man who will treat women reaaaallllllyyyy good!

For real, I honestly don't care anymore. I don't recognize America anymore or where it's heading. Progression you say? Progression to where? Hell? Sure seems like it. So if that's where we're heading then might as well go all out! I'm not knocking what anyone does anymore. I've gotten to the place where I'm even accepting of murderers and rapists as well. Why not? Who am I to judge them or knock their way of life? Whatever floats your boat - go for it. Hell, why does anyone even allow anyone to govern over them at all? You don't want a God to govern over you but you don't mind allowing other men and women telling you what to do or how to live your life? That's strange. Are you a free man or woman or a sheep that needs to be herded and controlled and told what to do? Who is anyone to tell you how to live your life if they are less than a God? Just another a-hole with an opinion of how you should be living your life. Why have government at all? Why not support a society without government so people can be truly free and go hog wild any way they wish? Why just stop with homosexuality people - we can do so much more to show how truly disgusting we can be!

[AVGWarhawk]

But there's a division of sexes for a reason, or so I thought. Most people are straight and don't want to feel uncomfortable knowing that their private parts might be getting looked at by the opposite sex. Now straight boys have to feel uncomfortable being around other boys who might be eyeing their private parts when they shower or go to the restroom. That's not really fair to straight boys is it? Not like they are allowed to go into the female restroom and make them feel uncomfortable.

I'm uncomfortable with anyone, other than my wife, looking at my privates. I was more so when I was a kid. Hell, I suffer from bashful bladder. I'm not sure if what you stated really qualifies as a reason.

So, I feel like if we are moving to an "anything goes" type of society then I think it's time we get rid of his and her bathrooms altogether and just have integrated bathrooms and integrated showering as well. This whole "us and them" isn't promoting equality anyways. Just making one group feel superior to another. If we can tell straight boys to "get over it" when it comes to their concerns for personal comfort then we should be telling females the same thing when it comes to their concerns about males seeing them naked as well.

There should be gay bathroom facilities then?

It's 2013 (does that even matter? I hear this so often as being an excuse for change.) and I can't believe they can integrate women into combat roles and onboard submarines at the snap of a finger but men and women can't share a common restroom in 2013 while gays can with straight people. What's the concern? Get over it already people. Lose your morality cause nobody believes in God anymore or the bible cause Barack Obama is our new messiah and we all must worship him and all the "progress" he's bringing! Before long we will be just like all the other 3rd world countries and that's great because America needs to share the power with the rest of the world cause we're all equals and nobody's country should hold power over another and we should all be free to walk around this world naked and have sex with anybody we want in public places and with non-humans as well and with trees and rocks and insects.

And while we're at it I think we should be accepting of men marrying more than one wife and women marrying more than one husband and all sorts of other formerly "deviant" acts. It's obvious nobody cares about the bible anymore or what it says. Anything and everything should go from this point forward. Don't hold back. Be as perverted as you wish to be cause government run public schools have taught us that evolution is what is real and that there is no God and that the bible is just a fiction book.

Want to marry your dog or have sex with it - go for it and get a tax break for it too. Nobody should be able to ever tell you no or that you're disgusting again. Everybody's a winner in a progressive liberal world. There are no losers. That's oppression and offensive to YOUR personal views and way of life. Want to marry your daughter and breed with her? Go for it. Break her in and make a real woman out of her. Want to breastfeed your 17 year old son and show him how to pleasure a woman with his mouth? You're such a good mom! That's how you raise a real man!

For real, I honestly don't care anymore. I don't recognize America anymore or where it's heading. Progression you say? Progression to where? Hell? Sure seems like it. So if that's where we're heading then might as well go all out! I'm not knocking what anyone does anymore. I've gotten to the place where I'm even accepting of murderers and rapists as well. Why not? Who am I to judge them or knock their way of life? Whatever floats your boat - go for it. Hell, why does anyone even allow anyone to govern over them at all? You don't want a God to govern over you but you don't mind allowing other men and women telling you what to do or how to live your life? That's strange.

Who is anyone to tell you how to live your life if they are less than a God? Just another a-hole with an opinion of how you should be living your life. Are you a man or a sheep? Why have government at all? Why not support a society without government so people can be truly free and go hog wild any way they wish? Why just stop with homosexuality?

I'm at a loss for words here.

[August]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I'm uncomfortable with anyone, other than my wife, looking at my privates.

This is one of the ideas behind segregating sexes. The concept that nobody need feel bashful (or at least feel less so) around people who don't have a reason to look. I don't see why this concept remains valid for gender but not sexuality when they are basically the same in their effect upon the group.

What mixing genders OR allowing open homosexuality does is completely change the social dynamic of any group by adding a whole new layer of complexity to it and I think in the case of the Boy Scouts it is a level of complexity that is unhealthy and unnecessary. The Scouts are not supposed to be about sex of any kind.

Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. That is what they are there to learn.

I believe anything else is best reserved for learning about elsewhere.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

This is one of the ideas behind segregating sexes. The concept that nobody need feel bashful (or at least feel less so) around people who don't have a reason to look. I don't see why this concept remains valid for gender but not sexuality when they are basically the same in their effect upon the group.

What mixing genders OR allowing open homosexuality does is completely change the social dynamic of any group by adding a whole new layer of complexity to it and I think in the case of the Boy Scouts it is a level of complexity that is unhealthy and unnecessary. The Scouts are not supposed to be about sex of any kind.

Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. That is what they are there to learn.

I believe anything else is best reserved for learning about elsewhere.

August, they are not initiating a, "Let's Learn Gay" merit badge.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by August

What mixing genders OR allowing open homosexuality does is completely change the social dynamic of any group by adding a whole new layer of complexity to it and I think in the case of the Boy Scouts it is a level of complexity that is unhealthy and unnecessary. The Scouts are not supposed to be about sex of any kind.

That's a fair point but do you think the discriminatory and exclusionary step of refusing access to all gay people goes too far?

Also, how does allowing gay people in suddenly make it all about sex?

Surely it's as focused on sex as the old rulebook was, ie rules about what orientations were and were not allowed. There's your first level of complexity right there.

Also as far as changing social group dynamics, can it not be said that doing so in this case allows it to reflect more accurately the society we live in?

Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. That is what they are there to learn.

I believe anything else is best reserved for learning about elsewhere.

Agreed entirely. It's not like lifting the ban on gay people will add the word "homosexual" to that list. Also I think it would serve to underline the "friendly, courteous, kind & reverent" part of the list

It's not as if gay people who want to be scout leaders are interested in anything other than what you mentioned. Blocking them out gives the idea that gay people can't be trusted not to make everything about sex.

EDIT - I see AVG made the same point but better, while I was typing

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by August

This is one of the ideas behind segregating sexes. The concept that nobody need feel bashful (or at least feel less so) around people who don't have a reason to look. I don't see why this concept remains valid for gender but not sexuality when they are basically the same in their effect upon the group.

What mixing genders OR allowing open homosexuality does is completely change the social dynamic of any group by adding a whole new layer of complexity to it and I think in the case of the Boy Scouts it is a level of complexity that is unhealthy and unnecessary. The Scouts are not supposed to be about sex of any kind.

Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. That is what they are there to learn.

I believe anything else is best reserved for learning about elsewhere.

Geesh, I totally agree with August.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by garren

Why just stop with homosexuality people - we can do so much more to show how truly disgusting we can be!

I was going to respond to more of what you said but I think quoting this last bit of nasty insult does the job.

[garren]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

I was going to respond to more of what you said but I think quoting this last bit of nasty insult does the job.

I'm not insulting anyone. I'm open to all sorts of perversions now. I have to thank the gay community on liberating me from that oppressive morality I once had. You know, without them I'd still be a church going man praying for healing and now I know I've just been wasting my time and oppressing myself. I'm FREE! Free at last. Think I'm going to go dress up in my wife's panties and prance around and have sex with some bullfrogs today cause I'm just soooo freeeee!!!! Yippeeee!!!! Freeeeee!!!

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by garren

I'm not insulting anyone.

Very funny.

I'm open to all sorts of perversions now. I have to thank the gay community on liberating me from that oppressive morality I once had.

Go be unpleasant somewhere else.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by garren

I'm not insulting anyone. I'm open to all sorts of perversions now. I have to thank the gay community on liberating me from that oppressive morality I once had. You know, without them I'd still be a church going man praying for healing and now I know I've just been wasting my time and oppressing myself. I'm FREE! Free at last. Think I'm going to go dress up in my wife's panties and prance around and have sex with some bullfrogs today cause I'm just soooo freeeee!!!! Yippeeee!!!! Freeeeee!!!

Does that mean that you won't be posting for awhile? Because that would be awesome.