Gun Control thread (merged many)

An object that can kill as easily as a gun does, does not belong in kids hands.

[August]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

An object that can kill as easily as a gun does, does not belong in kids hands.

A perfectly fine attitude to take,... with your own kids.

Making such judgements for others however is another matter completely.

Failure to clear a firearm of ammo after leaving the range or the woods.
Failure to employ a device like a trigger lock or a chamber blocker.
Failure to secure the firearm where kids can't get at it .

But when you do all that you are defenceless when it comes to rapidly reacting to the ever lurking home invaders.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

But when you do all that you are defenceless when it comes to rapidly reacting to the ever lurking home invaders.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

This is where we get the phrase "just because you can, doesn't mean you should." What an embarrassing jackass.

While I am a big proponent for our constitutional rights, I have never been a big fan of Open Carry, and you've pretty much taken the words right out of my mouth because that's how I feel about open carry. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I understand what people who are open carrying are trying to achieve, because a person who is active in shooting sports, hunting, and firearms in general, yes, seeing someone carrying a firearm is quite normal. But for people not engaged in shooting sports, hunting, etc, it is anything but normal, if not alarming. So I don't think it's getting the results they think it does. I think the effect is quite the opposite by making gun owners look like fringe elements of society.


Still though, seeing someone carrying a firearm while in a department store or what not, is not normal regardless if your a gun owner or not. There is a place for open carry. Hiking perhaps, on a ranch, camping, outdoor recreational activities where your not near any major population center. Guns are often thought of as tools. As such, one does not go walking into a department store carrying a skillsaw, or wearing a tool belt and hard hat. You usually carry those things when your on a job site......

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

An object that can kill as easily as a gun does, does not belong in kids hands.

In my opinion, teaching your child about firearms is set in stages. The mistake I think some parents are making is they are going straight to the .22 long rifle, and skipping the BB or Pellet gun.

You start with an air rifle like a BB gun at say.... an age of 9 or 10 at the VERY earliest if not a few years or older (my opinion). They learn the basics and ingrain habits and such with that. When the child has shown maturity, and competency, THEN you progress to the .22 LR, or .410 shotgun.

There's probably far too many people out there who do not understand nor respect the .22LR It's the smallest and cheapest caliber of ammunition on the market. It looks weak, like something you'd see an an old time carnival shooting gallery. However the .22 in reality, is can be quite a deadly round, as it is my understanding that once it enters a body, it can bounce around, thereby causing more damage to internal organs. For a point of comparison, the bullets that come out of the much debated AR-15, are .22 caliber in diameter.

TLDR version: Parental responsibility. Start your kid with an F'ing BB gun. It's a matter of proper training. IMO parent's who's kids accidently shot someone is a reflection upon poor choices made by the parent, and the poor training they provided to their child.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

While I am a big proponent for our constitutional rights, I have never been a big fan of Open Carry, and you've pretty much taken the words right out of my mouth because that's how I feel about open carry. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I understand what people who are open carrying are trying to achieve, because a person who is active in shooting sports, hunting, and firearms in general, yes, seeing someone carrying a firearm is quite normal. But for people not engaged in shooting sports, hunting, etc, it is anything but normal, if not alarming. So I don't think it's getting the results they think it does. I think the effect is quite the opposite by making gun owners look like fringe elements of society.


Still though, seeing someone carrying a firearm while in a department store or what not, is not normal regardless if your a gun owner or not. There is a place for open carry. Hiking perhaps, on a ranch, camping, outdoor recreational activities where your not near any major population center. Guns are often thought of as tools. As such, one does not go walking into a department store carrying a skillsaw, or wearing a tool belt and hard hat. You usually carry those things when your on a job site......

Good point. I'm not as anti-gun as some of my liberal bretheren, but doing something like this guy did just to be provocative and "in your face" is just hurting the cause. He does look like a loony and he's not accomplishing anything other than making all the other kids look at his kid and say "that's the one with the crazy dad." He clearly didn't consider that when he marched off on his stupid crusade. School is tough enough on kids. No need to make it harder.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

There's probably far too many people out there who do not understand nor respect the .22LR It's the smallest and cheapest caliber of ammunition on the market. It looks weak, like something you'd see an an old time carnival shooting gallery. However the .22 in reality, is can be quite a deadly round, as it is my understanding that once it enters a body, it can bounce around, thereby causing more damage to internal organs. For a point of comparison, the bullets that come out of the much debated AR-15, are .22 caliber in diameter.

What makes .22 and similar size rounds so deadly is their combination of high velocity and small weight.When they hit soft tissue they tend to tumble because of the low mass of the bullet with a large amount of kinetic energy behind it.So they tend to tumble only due to the small mass they will "bounce" off of harder tissue and bone.

Your larger rounds like .223 and .214(5.56mm & 5.54mm) take the effect and multiply it several times only they dont bounce they either explode or ideally "key hole" and they have enough mass to rip a massive laceration into internal organs.Nasty stuff indeed back in 1980's in Afghanistan when Soviets forces started used the AK-74 in combat the Mujaheddin thought that the rounds it fired must have been poisoned because they did not appear to be causing very much damage externally but men where dying within a day or two before they could get professional medical aid.The reality was of course that the bullets had torn internal organs apart and it just took time to die.The excruciating pain that fighters hit by 5.45mm rounds displayed must have of course added to the belief that the bullets where some how poisoned.

The Soviet/Russian 5.45mm has a special air pocket in its tip to increase it chances of expansion and improve the key hole effect it actually takes advantage of a loophole in the Hauge convention that bans hollow point and expanding rounds but the 5.54mm (5N7) cheat it because they have a solid tip.I have actually seen guys laugh at how small 5.45x39mm is my neighbor laughed at my rounds then I showed him this and he stopped laughing (5.45x39mm is the top one notice that it caused a cavity twice this is a US Army wound chart for doctors)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../RussianWP.jpg



You forgot about the .17 round currently the smallest mass produced caliber.

[Bilge_Rat]

All bullets will tumble when entering the human body, although all at different rates, even different types of 7.62mm or 5.56 mm ammo will differ.

To simplify, a round which hits a body will generally do one of three things:

1. go straight through. This is called a through and through wound and usually causes the least damage, depending on where it hits;

2. tumble. This causes more damage; or

3. shatter. This usually causes the most damage.

Generally a softer bullet is more likely to shatter, but it generally does not carry as far and may have trouble penetrating protective clothing, so there is always a compromise involved.

Incidentally, that is the theory behind the "double-tap", namely if you fire two bullets, the odds are very high that at least one will tumble and cause a serious wound.