It's finally happened I think.

[Wolferz]

I dunno Tak, You may want to dig a little deeper into the plans for the PS4 and the 720. It has been alluded that both Microsoft and Sony will require constant connection to play games on their new consoles. Even to the point of making all future titles download only. This is where PC titles are headed, if not already there. I can cite the Elder Scrolls Skyrim as an example. The only code on the disc is the Steam client. After you load that and sign up for an account, you're treated to a four hour download from a slow server. Even if you have a top of the spectrum broadband connection. I don't see a lot of impatient gamers wanting to wait forever to play a game they just shelled out sixty bucks for.

Nintendo kind of cut their own throats with the Wii consoles. Super hyped before release and then...not enough product in the pipeline to meet the demand. This left only frustration for the buyers. Something my wife and I were subjected to with her mentally challenged son.
. Why would any developer want to waste project money for anemic sales to vaporware owners?

I'm all for cutting pirate throats when it comes to intellectual properties but, doing so while alienating the gamer with heavy handed DRMs is counterproductive. I'm sure most truck drivers and military service members who game would agree with me. Those are the gamers who won't have a constant high speed connection to the internet.

I can project, as you say, through simple logic and that rarest of attributes.. common sense.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

I can cite the Elder Scrolls Skyrim as an example. The only code on the disc is the Steam client. After you load that and sign up for an account, you're treated to a four hour download from a slow server. Even if you have a top of the spectrum broadband connection. I don't see a lot of impatient gamers wanting to wait forever to play a game they just shelled out sixty bucks for.

Poor example. Steam's offline mode works just fine after downloading the game and a one time authentication check.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Poor example. Steam's offline mode works just fine after downloading the game and a one time authentication check.

I didn't even download the game, there's a simple workaround that lets you install (or reinstall) directly from the disk. Unless you want the free Hi Res texture packs the only thing you need to download are the official patches. And you don't have to download those if you don't want them and stay in offline mode. The only time I'm not offline is when I deliberately go online after deciding I'm ready for the latest patch.

[Takeda Shingen]

I dunno Tak, You may want to dig a little deeper into the plans for the PS4 and the 720. It has been alluded that both Microsoft and Sony will require constant connection to play games on their new consoles. Even to the point of making all future titles download only. This is where PC titles are headed, if not already there. I can cite the Elder Scrolls Skyrim as an example. The only code on the disc is the Steam client. After you load that and sign up for an account, you're treated to a four hour download from a slow server. Even if you have a top of the spectrum broadband connection. I don't see a lot of impatient gamers wanting to wait forever to play a game they just shelled out sixty bucks for.

Nintendo kind of cut their own throats with the Wii consoles. Super hyped before release and then...not enough product in the pipeline to meet the demand. This left only frustration for the buyers. Something my wife and I were subjected to with her mentally challenged son.
. Why would any developer want to waste project money for anemic sales to vaporware owners?

I'm all for cutting pirate throats when it comes to intellectual properties but, doing so while alienating the gamer with heavy handed DRMs is counterproductive. I'm sure every truck driver and military service member would agree with me. Those are the gamers who won't have a constant high speed connection to the internet.

I can project, as you say, through simple logic and that rarest of attributes.. common sense.

Again, you're just reading into the stats what you want to read into them. I would suggest some reading for you into the matter of the next generation consoles. Here are some good articles for you to start with:

http://masonicgamer.com/why-the-ps4-may-fail/

http://www.examiner.com/article/xbox...dios-developer

http://flawedgaming.com/2013/02/24/p...it-could-fail/

The arguments against the next generation consoles are twofold. (1) tech-based arguments about hardware and specs. (2) developer squabbling over said specs. See the Wii U, and it's sub-par processor, as case in point. The bottom line is that virtually no one is talking about DRM in these complaints, including the article that you linked in post No. 1. And that's common sense, not that it matters around here.

[Wolferz]

Regardless whether DRM is mentioned or not, it's the root cause for many a publishers current anemia on the bottom line. They are turning to online only game service to protect their IPs. That's a fact. Steam, U-play and Origin just to mention a few.
Quoting an opinion page from a secretive society member doesn't convince me of anything.

When those services mentioned above go dark, guess who'll get left holding a bag full of nothing. AKA Snipe hunting.

Maybe it's time I go take a walk in the woods with my Frisbees or my golf clubs.
At least the creatures there won't find fault with my last shot and the only thing that gets burned will be excess calories.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

Regardless whether DRM is mentioned or not, it's the root cause for many a publishers current anemia on the bottom line. They are turning to online only game service to protect their IPs. That's a fact. Steam, U-play and Origin just to mention a few.
Quoting an opinion page from a secretive society member doesn't convince me of anything.

Which is why I backed it up with Kotaku, Flawed and Examiner. And once again, publishers are porting their games to PS3, 360 and PC, but are snubbing Wii U. The reason is hardware; publishers are worried that the processor can't keep up. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but I am merely pointing out that the facts don't back it up.

So, yes, go take your walk and feel better.

[Wolferz]

Which is why I backed it up with Kotaku, Flawed and Examiner. And once again, publishers are porting their games to PS3, 360 and PC, but are snubbing Wii U. The reason is hardware; publishers are worried that the processor can't keep up. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but I am merely pointing out that the facts don't back it up.

why are you so fixated on the Wii? Their games are mostly proprietary and will only run on their hardware and aren't very port friendly to other platforms. So, naturally, developers are going to shy away from it in favor of Sony and Microsoft. Two really heavy hitters in the industry that move
a lot of hardware.

It still doesn't address the original point of draconian DRM schemes that club you for an always on connection. Something the developers and their publishers want for demographic data mining and constant control of their IPs.
I think therefore I am... not sure of anything at this point.

Stroke damaged brain matter tends to do that.

I've got nothing against a master debater like you Takeda.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

why are you so fixated on the Wii? Their games are mostly proprietary and will only run on their hardware and aren't very port friendly to other platforms. So, naturally, developers are going to shy away from it in favor of Sony and Microsoft. Two really heavy hitters in the industry that move
a lot of hardware.

It still doesn't address the original point of draconian DRM schemes that club you for an always on connection. Something the developers and their publishers want for demographic data mining and constant control of their IPs.
I think therefore I am... not sure of anything at this point.

You opened with a link that mentioned nothing about DRM. The first example in the link, however, is about the Wii U. It then goes into crystal ball mode about the PS4 and 720, both of which are vapor at this point. And so, Nintendo's next gen is the only one that we can talk about in any sense of reality.

You then said that gamers are shying away due to DRM issues. In the case of Nintendo, I established that this was not the case. Furthermore, I frequent a number of video game forums, and DRM is not a concern that I see from players regarding the next gen consoles from Sony and Microsoft. They are worried about hardware and the "dated" effect of said hardware. I cited examples of this criticism.

In short, I think you are wrong about the DRM in this issue; not that DRM isn't a concern, but it is not a factor in the current next gen criticism, and it certainly isn't the reason behind the failure of the Wii U, which again is the only substantive argument here.

I've got nothing against a master debater like you Takeda.

Why do you always have to tag an insult on at the end?

[Wolferz]

Why do you always have to tag an insult on at the end?

It is impossible to give insult unless it is taken.

You debate very well and I assumed it made you a master.

However, you sir, are pretty good at tossing the barbed comments too.

If I'm wrong I'll get the first stone for you to heave at me.
Peace brother.

Originally Posted by Wolferz

It still doesn't address the original point of draconian DRM schemes that club you for an always on connection. Something the developers and their publishers want for demographic data mining and constant control of their IPs.

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

In short, I think you are wrong about the DRM in this issue; not that DRM isn't a concern, but it is not a factor in the current next gen criticism, and it certainly isn't the reason behind the failure of the Wii U, which again is the only substantive argument here.

I think you both have very clearly expressed why you feel the way you do about the subject and IMO it all comes down to a matter of what you already believe about the undisclosed reasons or presumed causes behind what was going on that were not openly discussed in the article or if any opinions based on the article should be strictly limited to the exact context of only what was written in said article.

just my 2 cents