someone please explain the 9mm ammo shortage

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

- "I better get mine before i can't!". People never appreciate what they have, or could have until it's gone or the option taken away from them. From multiple sources ive heard from California to Oklahoma, , including local ones here in utah, it seems approximately 80% of the customers in gun stores have never owned a gun before, or maybe own a single firearm and haven't been into a gun store in years.

I think that is a big part of it yes, but why? Personally I'm thinking its because people are buying into the loud voices who say that they are going to take away all guns, or assault rifles. I guess I don't understand them....I suppose I've just never really wanted an M-16 or AK style gun. I own enough guns for myself, but I've always found that for each individual purpose an AR or AK has a civil counterpart which is more suited to the role.

This is coupled by the fact that I don't buy into the hype. The fact that our stupid senators can or at least come damn near blocking any kind of vote or discussion in the senate means they will never take our guns away...maybe make it harder for wackjobs to get ahold of bushmasters but lets face it...this is the USA and I think we need to stop listening to the tinfoil crowd and NRA

[August]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

...but lets face it...this is the USA and I think we need to stop listening to the tinfoil crowd and NRA

I'm sure that would be just what Senator Feinstein and President Obama would like us to do so they can get back to gutting our 2A right but that ain't gonna happen.

All they have done is wake up gun owners to the fact that the Democratic party will push any anti-gun legislation they think they can get away with and I think they will suffer at the polls next election like they did in 1994 after the last anti-gun push they made.

If you think i'm wrong then please show me the anti-gun legislation between then and now that they did not support. I have never heard of an anti-gun bill the Democratic party did not like.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

I think that is a big part of it yes, but why? Personally I'm thinking its because people are buying into the loud voices who say that they are going to take away all guns, or assault rifles.

You DID read Fienstiens original proposal didn't you? No special interest group lobbying was neccessary. If you haven't, you should, then pair that with the knowledge that she got her shennaigans passed before. On a personal note, ill give you this timeline:

* Friday: i saw the news about sandy hook. Given the age of the victims involved, i knew this was going to be an "excrement storm". I told my wife about it that night when she came home from work, and we were both agreed that if we were goign to get her an AR, we'd better do it NOW.

* Saturday morning, by 9:30 or 10AM, we had cleared NICS and was on the way home with my wifes new rifle.

* Sunday Afternoon. Fienstien opens her big mouth

* Monday : The rush on the gun stores is in full tilt.


Do you have any idea how utter, and totally complete this rush has been? The racks in all my area's stores were picked clean. I was talking with my folks who still live in california. Same thing. The gun racks were picked clean.

The NRA had nothing to do with this.

I guess I don't understand them....I suppose I've just never really wanted an M-16 or AK style gun

.

I never cared for an AR platform myself, (I'm an M1A/M-14 fanboy) until we discovered it was about the only rifle aside from a .22, that my wife can shoot comfortably. Once we came upon that realization, an AR was on the wish list.

I own enough guns for myself, but I've always found that for each individual purpose an AR or AK has a civil counterpart which is more suited to the role.

Not all guns, work for all people. Recoil sensitivity, length of pull, etc etc.

This is coupled by the fact that I don't buy into the hype.

I don't put much stock into hype either, but it has occured to me there is a fine line between ignoring hype, and being asleep and not realizing what is going on.

The fact that our stupid senators can or at least come damn near blocking any kind of vote or discussion in the senate means they will never take our guns away...maybe make it harder for wackjobs to get ahold of bushmasters but lets face it...this is the USA and I think we need to stop listening to the tinfoil crowd and NRA

As i've said before in other posts. This isn't just about guns, the tinfoil crowed, or the NRA. It's much larger then that. Ever since 911, our government has been on the "politics of fear" train. Our civil liberties have been pushed onto the proverbial slippery slope, and it needs to stop. Gun control is just one piece of a larger picture.

On a side note, I think maybe you should watch this:

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

As i've said before in other posts. This isn't just about guns, the tinfoil crowed, or the NRA. It's much larger then that. Ever since 911, our government has been on the "politics of fear" train. Our civil liberties have been pushed onto the proverbial slippery slope, and it needs to stop. Gun control is just one piece of a larger picture.
[/URL]

I agree. When the DHS was formed was when I decided to buy my first firearm. Until then I was happy with my collection of air guns for shooting pleasure. After that I thought the government basically through away the Bill of Rights and all we had left was lip service.

[haz]

in my opinion I think the govt. Is grabbing all the ammo it can.to limit ammo to public it would basicly have the same effect as a weapons ban plus not as obvious as a gun ban,and they could figure out away to tax the blank out of it like cigarettes,and if they say its for homeland and military,who would think to much of it? cant even find .22 ammo around here.also the cost of a box of 30-06 ammo has gone up a lot in last month or so.glad I bow hunt also. just my humble opinion.

[AVGWarhawk]

ammo has gone up a lot in last month or so

Price gouging at it's finest.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

I'll have to look at the Mosin tomorrow and tell for sure...

I'm thinking it's a Tula M91/30...

Did you figure out what you have?

A star with a hammer or a triangle with a star or a hammer inside it was produced at Tula.A star with an arrow or bow and arrow inside it was produced at Izhmash. A date from 1930 up on a rifle with a full size barrel makes it a 91/30.A date of 1938 to 1943 on a carbine makes it an M38( these mounted a removable cruciform bayonet just like the 91/30s).A pre 1938 date on a carbine makes it a "dragoon" but those are very rare in the US.

A date of 1944 or later on a carbine makes it an M44 it may or may not have a folding bayonet still attached.If the M44 has folding bayonet but a date of 1943 then you might have one of the 50,000 test run M44s produced in late 1943 or more likely you have an M38 that at some point had an M44 bayonet attached to it.

If you do not see any of the described markings and no Cyrillic letters you most likely have a Finnish Mosin-Nagant.If yours has the words Westinghouse or Remington you have a very rare rifle produced for the Czar but never shipped due to the 1917 Revolution.These rifles where sold on the US market in the 1920's.Except for the ones the A.E.F. left in Murmansk.

If you see a pre 1917 date you have a much rarer rifle as well look for the Russian eagle stamp.

A little known secret about standard 91/30s(none sniper) that many people are not aware of is that the bayonet actually improves the harmonics of the barrel and makes the rifle more accurate.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Did you figure out what you have?

A star with a hammer or a triangle with a star or a hammer inside it was produced at Tula.A star with an arrow or bow and arrow inside it was produced at Izhmash. A date from 1930 up on a rifle with a full size barrel makes it a 91/30.A date of 1938 to 1943 on a carbine makes it an M38( these mounted a removable cruciform bayonet just like the 91/30s).A pre 1938 date on a carbine makes it a "dragoon" but those are very rare in the US.

A date of 1944 or later on a carbine makes it an M44 it may or may not have a folding bayonet still attached.If the M44 has folding bayonet but a date of 1943 then you might have one of the 50,000 test run M44s produced in late 1943 or more likely you have an M38 that at some point had an M44 bayonet attached to it.

If you do not see any of the described markings and no Cyrillic letters you most likely have a Finnish Mosin-Nagant.If yours has the words Westinghouse or Remington you have a very rare rifle produced for the Czar but never shipped due to the 1917 Revolution.These rifles where sold on the US market in the 1920's.Except for the ones the A.E.F. left in Murmansk.

If you see a pre 1917 date you have a much rarer rifle as well look for the Russian eagle stamp.

According to this post, I have a Izhmash Dragoon rifle in my basement. It has the Tula Marking and was made in 1934.

[TFatseas]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

According to this post, I have a Izhmash Dragoon rifle in my basement. It has the Tula Marking and was made in 1934.

Read to your hearts content.

http://62x54r.net/

Personally I like shooting them and they're not bad for what they are, a boat oar.

[Red October1984]

I always liked the Mosin. One of these days, I'll buy my own.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

According to this post, I have a Izhmash Dragoon rifle in my basement. It has the Tula Marking and was made in 1934.

It either has a Tula marking or an Izhmash marking it wont have both.an easy way to find out is by looking at the receiver a pre 1942 rifle will have a hexagonal shape in front of the bolt.


I really should not have called the dragoon a carbine because the barrel on those is the same length as a standard 91/30.The original M91 had a 51 inch barrel.If yours has a date of 1934 it has to be a 91/30 because the M38 which is truly a carbine was not in production in 1934.You have an early production 91/30.

You do have a generally higher quality 91/30 though during WWII they started rounding off the receivers to shorten production time.Your dads being pre WWII should have a hexagonal shaped receiver.


http://62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinID.htm

You should buy at least two Mosin-Nagants a full size 91/30 and a carbine.Then you should also buy an SVT-40 just to have something that most people do not own.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

It either has a Tula marking or an Izhmash marking it wont have both.an easy way to find out is by looking at the receiver a pre 1942 rifle will have a hexagonal shape in front of the bolt.


Maybe you should use this because I doubt that you have a dragoon.

It has the Izhmash marking for sure.

The date that is stamped on there is 1934. I doubt I have a dragoon...but there's this little part of me that is hoping.

I'll have to take a better look at it. Hang on.


EDIT: It's a hex bolt Izhmash from 1934. I'm sure of that.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

It has the Izhmash marking for sure.

The date that is stamped on there is 1934. I doubt I have a dragoon...but there's this little part of me that is hoping.

I'll have to take a better look at it. Hang on.

The stamp is it a triangle or a star? Star with an arrow inside is Tula.Triangle with an arrow is Izhmash.If the Triangle has a "T" inside its Finnish.

Here is page showing all of the marks and proofs look though these as you can also ID if your was once a sniper rifle.
Column 18 shows the sniper markings.Yours was most likely not because it has only one date stamp.But when you go to buy one look for the sniper proofs and ask the seller to show every Mosin that they have because you want to find the best one.It may not be the one that has the sniper proofs.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinMarks01.htm


They did take some dragoons and "Cossacks" (a dragoon with no bayonet mounting) and convert them to 91/30 standards of course in this case they are not as valuable as an unconverted dragoon.You would also have to take one apart to tell if it was converted but not at a level that a gun owner should feel uncomfortable with..The site does not go into detail about how to ID a converted dragoon.There are also 91/30s that where selected as sniper rifles and then when at a later date considered not accurate enough and converted back to a standard 91/30 again.

Measure the barrel length and look at that page I linked to according to your date it should be 48 1/2" click on that length on the page and go from there.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

The stamp is it a triangle or a star? Star with an arrow inside is Tula.Triangle with an arrow is Izhmash.If the Triangle has a "T" inside its Finnish.

Ah...Crap. I read it wrong. I have a Tula. Sorry.

They did take some dragoons and "Cossacks" (a dragoon with no bayonet mounting) and convert them to 91/30 standards of course in this case they are not as valuable as an unconverted dragoon.You would also have to take one apart to tell if it was converted.The site does not go into detail about how to ID a converted dragoon.There are also 91/30s that where selected as sniper rifles and then when at a later date considered not accurate enough and converted back to a standard 91/30 again.Those would take an expert to ID though.

There's no bayonet on ours.

Measure the barrel length and look at that page I linked to according to your date it should be 48 1/2" click on that length on the page and go from there.

I'll have to do that tomorrow. I don't have time to go do that now.


Now that we've established that the Star with an Arrow is not Izhmash...

[Buddahaid]

Yeah, but it's still a very robust and well designed rifle. Really solidly made with parts that are very interchangeable. As far as those videos go, I think the damned thing kicks hard and ten rounds are enough for my spine. Especially with the steel but plate.