Community projects?

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by Trevally.

When you are posting - left click and drag your mouse over the text and it will highlight. You can then use the insert link button to add your link to the highlighted text.

Post One

Thanks Trevally. I was getting tired of posting the full URL every time.

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Thanks Trevally. I was getting tired of posting the full URL every time.

@Gap

If you use a google toolbar on your browser - you can set it to auto translate sites as you browse. So no need to copy and paste into google translate

[Sartoris]

I've just uploaded the excel document for U-34, first patrol. I'd like to ask you to look it over before I copy the information into the u-boat positions document. The map looks a bit weird to me, there are two straight lines going from the patrol area to the uboat's harbor. Did I make a mistake somewhere?

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by Sartoris

I've just uploaded the excel document for U-34, first patrol. I'd like to ask you to look it over before I copy the information into the u-boat positions document. The map looks a bit weird to me, there are two straight lines going from the patrol area to the uboat's harbor. Did I make a mistake somewhere?

Nice work Sartoris

Everything looks great. The two lines bisecting England were probably caused by a minor error in entering the coordinates. On August 30, you have U-34's coordinates as 53.31N 08.09E, which is Wilhelmshaven, but uboat.net has her at 48.45N 13.45W for that day. I'm sure it was a simple copy/paste error. Other than that, it looks perfect to me.

It's good that you noticed something was amiss. A good way to check our work is to 1) scan through the output cells to see if any of them are blank and 2) check the map for any bizarre coordinates.

[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

@gap I've made some changes the setting of the "Completed Patrols" folder. Can you upload anything now?

I have not attempted it yet, but now I have an upload icon on the top left corner

Originally Posted by keysersoze

@gap, could you please have a look at the patrols 2 and 3 for U-33 in the Completed Patrols folder? In patrol 2, we are missing coordinates for 22 Nov. Interpolating them would create a path through land, so I left it blank. Is this okay?

you can:

- interpolate the missing coordinate using the automatic interpolator

- copy the generated coordinate and paste it in the corresponding lat/long cell as if it was a normal input

- adjust the new input enough to make route not to cross land. In this case you should move the coordinate northward and/or westward

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Also, on 24 Nov., U-33 successfully attacked a British prize ship while she was on her way back to Wilhelmshaven. Do you want me to set current activity as "Attacking contact" or "Bound to base"? If I set it to "Attacking contact," it looks like there will be two "Ending patrol" messages.

I think you can leave it as "Attacking contact". We will make the "ending patrol" message as generic as possible, so to encompass cases like this, when some notable event interrupts the return passage. I think that something like "proceeding to base" should make the trick

Talking about the same patrol log, I have a couple of remarks:

- the aforementioned attack is recorded in the wrong date/location. You should move it to Nov 23, when U-33 was sailing NW of Orkneys

- I have noticed that you have recorded the whole outboud passage until when mines are layed, as "sailing to/from ops area". While this is surely acceptable, I think that mine laying patrols involved flexible orders. When processing other patrols, I have noticed that U-boats could attack enemy contacts even before deploying their mine load, if they got this chance. Subsequently, I have recorded the first part of their patrols as "sailing to patrol area"/"normal patrol" (see below for a quicker use of the latter tag), and I have limited the "sailing to/from ops area" tag to when the boat was definitely heading to the area designed for minelaying operations.

Originally Posted by keysersoze

For patrol 3, in which U-33 was sunk, we are missing all the positions except for the date of departure and date sunk. Should I leave it the way it is, with all other days blank?

In no case blank coordinates are an acceptable output; ubootwaffe.net had complete u-boat position logs up to spring '40. Unfortunately this website is off now, and we are left with only two options: either ignore this patrol, or invent the missing coordinates on the base of similar patrols

Originally Posted by keysersoze

The first post has been updated with links for the spreadsheet, step-by-step instructions, and relevant examples. Don't be intimidated by the length: I want to explicitly lay out every step to make it as easy as possible for everyone. With a few minutes of work, you could probably figure out about 90% of what is written there.

Please let me know how I can improve the instructions with additional explanations/examples or by simplifying the language.

Great work!

Originally Posted by Sartoris

Thanks for the reply. Could you also look into my previous question: Should we remove the comma from the lat/long found on uboat.net? Example: 48.45N, 12.15W

Good remark, I will upload a new version of the calculator preadsheet where you don't need to remove the comma. I want to do the data input process as fast and easy as possible

Originally Posted by Sartoris

Thanks for the answer. I have one more question: I'm not sure which long/lat to put in for the Wilhelmshaven port on the first and last day.

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Another great question. I have been using 53.31N 08.09E for Wilhelmshaven. I had one patrol end in Lorient, and I just googled "Lorient latitude longitude" and google displayed it immediately. I think this should be precise enough for our purposes.

Maybe we can post a list of common U-boat bases with their lat/long coordinates. Using exactly the same set of coordinates for each location, would allow TDW to use this information for some of the planned radio reports, without need to add any extra information in our logs

Originally Posted by Trevally.

@Gap

If you use a google toolbar on your browser - you can set it to auto translate sites as you browse. So no need to copy and paste into google translate

Thank for your suggestion Trev
I am browsing internet with Google Chrome, which includes the auto translate function, but I thought I would make my suggestion as generic as possible

Originally Posted by Sartoris

I've just uploaded the excel document for U-34, first patrol. I'd like to ask you to look it over before I copy the information into the u-boat positions document. The map looks a bit weird to me, there are two straight lines going from the patrol area to the uboat's harbor. Did I make a mistake somewhere?

Very well done Sartoris.

the error is in the 30 Aug coordinate; you should set it to '48.45N 13.45W' instead of '53.31N 08.09E'. I am glad I have implemented the course plotted on map feature, because it makes it easy to spot and to correct always possible mistakes

A few more remarks:

- you don't need to select anything in the 'current activity' row for normal patrol coordinates: blank cells are automatically recognized as 'normal patrol' anyway. This will make you to spare the time to tag each cell

- similarly, when an attack is recorded in the 'number of ships sunk/damaged' row, you don't need to set its corresponding 'current activity' cell to 'attacking contact': the spreadsheet will automatically recognize attacks, as long as a numerical input equal or bigger than 0 is set. If the setting is 0, a failed attack flag will be generated, otherwise, the output used for radio reporting will be 'successful attack'.

- I have noticed that you have recorded the Estonian Ship "Hanonia", captured on 24 Sep 1939, as a 'sunk/damaged ship'. Since the seizing of ships didn't obviously involve the use of any torpedo, I wouldn't record them at all. Nonetheless, I can create a 'ship catured' input for radio reporting purposes, if you think it is worth it

P.S: another special tag I am thinking to add is "boat being refitted"

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by gap

you can:

- interpolate the missing coordinate using the automatic interpolator

- copy the generated coordinate and paste it in the corresponding lat/long cell as if it was a normal input

- adjust the new input enough to make route not to cross land. In this case you should move the coordinate northward and/or westward

Okay, I will adjust the coordinates.

Originally Posted by gap

- the aforementioned attack is recorded in the wrong date/location. You should move it to Nov 23, when U-33 was sailing NW of Orkneys

I had chosen the Nov. 24 date based on Wynn (p. 24) and u-historia. Both say the Borkum was sunk on the 24th. However, I see that uboat.net has additional information for the ship, such as the time and coordinates of the sinking Since Wynn and and u-historia do not have this detail, I will probably trust uboat.net.

Originally Posted by gap

- I have noticed that you have recorded the whole outboud passage until when mines are layed, as "sailing to/from ops area". While this is surely acceptable, I think that mine laying patrols involved flexible orders. When processing other patrols, I have noticed that U-boats could attack enemy contacts even before deploying their mine load, if they got this chance. Subsequently, I have recorded the first part of their patrols as "sailing to patrol area"/"normal patrol" (see below for a quicker use of the latter tag), and I have limited the "sailing to/from ops area" tag to when the boat was definitely heading to the area designed for minelaying operations.

Yes, you're right. I'll make the necessary changes.

Originally Posted by gap

In no case blank coordinates are an acceptable output; ubootwaffe.net had complete u-boat position logs up to spring '40. Unfortunately this website is off now, and we are left with only two options: either ignore this patrol, or invent the missing coordinates on the base of similar patrols

I don't want to ignore the patrol, so I will fabricate some coordinates based upon similar outbound voyages. I will also adjust my instructions in the first post to indicate that blank coordinates are never acceptable.

Originally Posted by gap

Good remark, I will upload a new version of the calculator preadsheet where you don't need to remove the comma. I want to do the data input process as fast and easy as possible

Excellent idea

Originally Posted by gap

Maybe we can post a list of common U-boat bases with their lat/long coordinates. Using exactly the same set of coordinates for each location, would allow TDW to use this information for some of the planned radio reports, without need to add any extra information in our logs

I had a similar thought. I will start working on it and add a list to the first post. Speaking of the instructions on the first post, have I made any mistakes?

Originally Posted by gap

P.S: another special tag I am thinking to add is "boat being refitted"

Wouldn't a refit happen at port anyway?

[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I had chosen the Nov. 24 date based on Wynn (p. 24) and u-historia. Both say the Borkum was sunk on the 24th. However, I see that uboat.net has additional information for the ship, such as the time and coordinates of the sinking Since Wynn and and u-historia do not have this detail, I will probably trust uboat.net.

I think the discussed attack took place on the night between 23 and 24 of November, thus the ambiguity in our sources. Nonetheless, the location described by u-historia, al Noroeste de las Orkneys -NW of Orkneys- is more compatible with the location given by u-boat.net for Nov 23.

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I don't want to ignore the patrol, so I will fabricate some coordinates based upon similar outbound voyages. I will also adjust my instructions in the first post to indicate that blank coordinates are never acceptable.

Good choice. Since this one was a short patrol, guestimating a likely route shouldn't be a difficult task!

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I had a similar thought. I will start working on it and add a list to the first post.

You might want to look at the bases listed in this post. These, plus Helgoland, should cover most of the U-boat patrols. Whenever someone meets a new base, he can make a post here, reporting the base and the coordinate used for it, so that you can update the list in the first post.

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Speaking of the instructions on the first post, have I made any mistakes?

Not really

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Wouldn't a refit happen at port anyway?

I was thinking of the quick refits taking place at sea, or from the German tankers interned in Spanish ports. Moreover, I wonder if we shouldn't reset the attacks counter after these refits, meaning that the U-boat would have been refitted with fresh torpedoes

[keysersoze]

Okay, I'll adjust it to the 23rd

Originally Posted by gap

You might want to look at the bases listed in this post. These, plus Helgoland, should cover most of the U-boat patrols. Whenever someone meets a new base, he can make a post here, reporting the base and the coordinate used for it, so that you can update the list in the first post.

Thanks for the link. I'll get lat/long for all these ports.

Originally Posted by gap

I was thinking of the quick refits taking place at sea, or from the German tankers interned in Spanish ports. Moreover, I wonder if we shouldn't reset the attacks counter after these refits, meaning that the U-boat would have been refitted with fresh torpedoes

In that case, a "refitting" tag is probably a good idea. Would it be possible to halve the attack counter instead of resetting it completely? Generally, Type XIVs and even interned tankers would not have had enough torpedoes to fully outfit a U-boat. I'm not even sure if a VIIF would have fully replenished a boat's torpedoes, owing to the extreme difficulty and the long time required to replenish at sea, to say nothing of the danger of Allied air attack.

[Targor Avelany]

U-34's 4th patrol has been added. Do you want me to add the completed u-boat coordinates spreadsheet anywhere?

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

U-34's 4th patrol has been added. Do you want me to add the completed u-boat coordinates spreadsheet anywhere?

Thanks targor

As long as you've uploaded the completed copy of your generator to the Completed Patrols folder and have copied the output data to the online spreadsheet, there's no need to do anything else with the generator.

@ gap: Should we start setting U-boat veterancy levels? If we're going to use this variable, we should start as soon as possible to avoid having to re-do a lot of patrols. I would propose creating standards for determining skill level. Perhaps we could take into account tonnage sunk, whether the commander was a Knight's Cross winner, etc.

[Sartoris]

Originally Posted by gap

Very well done Sartoris.

the error is in the 30 Aug coordinate; you should set it to '48.45N 13.45W' instead of '53.31N 08.09E'. I am glad I have implemented the course plotted on map feature, because it makes it easy to spot and to correct always possible mistakes

A few more remarks:

- you don't need to select anything in the 'current activity' row for normal patrol coordinates: blank cells are automatically recognized as 'normal patrol' anyway. This will make you to spare the time to tag each cell

- similarly, when an attack is recorded in the 'number of ships sunk/damaged' row, you don't need to set its corresponding 'current activity' cell to 'attacking contact': the spreadsheet will automatically recognize attacks, as long as a numerical input equal or bigger than 0 is set. If the setting is 0, a failed attack flag will be generated, otherwise, the output used for radio reporting will be 'successful attack'.

- I have noticed that you have recorded the Estonian Ship "Hanonia", captured on 24 Sep 1939, as a 'sunk/damaged ship'. Since the seizing of ships didn't obviously involve the use of any torpedo, I wouldn't record them at all. Nonetheless, I can create a 'ship catured' input for radio reporting purposes, if you think it is worth it

P.S: another special tag I am thinking to add is "boat being refitted"

Thanks for the suggestions!

I think it might be nice to have the option "ship captured", but perhaps not necessary for the purposes of this project.

[Sartoris]

I've added the corrected data for U-34 to the online document, but the entries for August look a bit wonky to me. I'd be grateful if you could check for any mistakes. Sorry about all the double checking, but I just want to be sure I get the hang of this process.

[keysersoze]

Sorry for the radio silence...I've been swamped the past couple days.

Originally Posted by Sartoris

I've added the corrected data for U-34 to the online document, but the entries for August look a bit wonky to me. I'd be grateful if you could check for any mistakes. Sorry about all the double checking, but I just want to be sure I get the hang of this process.

No need to apologize for wanting a second set of eyes to check your work--that's the beauty of doing this online. It looks like you accidentally pasted the output for the month of August in the cell that begins at August 1st, instead of August 19th, when U-34 historically left Wilhelmshaven. That's why there is a large gap at the end of the month. Be sure to match up the date of departure from uboat.net with the dates in the online spreadsheet. It will be relatively rare for patrols to begin on the first day of the month, so you will probably have to skip a certain amount of time for that first month.

Also, if you stilll have the the filled-out generator form for this first patrol, could you please upload it to the Completed Patrols folder? That way, we can double check it more thoroughly.

Thanks again for your help!

[Sartoris]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Sorry for the radio silence...I've been swamped the past couple days.



No need to apologize for wanting a second set of eyes to check your work--that's the beauty of doing this online. It looks like you accidentally pasted the output for the month of August in the cell that begins at August 1st, instead of August 19th, when U-34 historically left Wilhelmshaven. That's why there is a large gap at the end of the month. Be sure to match up the date of departure from uboat.net with the dates in the online spreadsheet. It will be relatively rare for patrols to begin on the first day of the month, so you will probably have to skip a certain amount of time for that first month.

Also, if you stilll have the the filled-out generator form for this first patrol, could you please upload it to the Completed Patrols folder? That way, we can double check it more thoroughly.

Thanks again for your help!

Thanks, I think I've fixed it now. I've also uploaded the document.

[LemonA]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

...

1. Access our google drive folder and download gap's generator

a. Link
.....
Play around with it for ten minutes, and I guarantee that most of your questions will be answered .

Where is the "gap`s generator" exactly? Link shows me preview low level gif-pictures of excel pages etc. but not a downloadable program.
What do you mean with "Access our google drive folder"? Do we have to create a google-account to get this data?