Community projects?

[Dogfish40]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I just finished U-33's first patrol and have uploaded it to the google doc. We all should give gap a virtual round of applause (if not a standing ovation) for his incredible work on this generator. It is very straighforward and user-friendly, but the data it magically generates is anything but simple. I'm actually astounded by how easy it is to use.



Before we open the floodgates and start the project for real, I think it would be best if each person does a single patrol--consider it a shakedown cruise. Then we can discuss any problems and offer suggestions for further refinement. If all goes well, I will start a new thread that will contain a concise summary of the project, step-by-step instructions for data collection, and U-boat assignments for each volunteer. I will update the assigments regularly so that you only need to glance at the first post to be reminded where to begin.



For now, let's each look at a single patrol:

• Sartoris: U-34, 1st patrol (19/8/39-26/9/39)
• V13dweller: U-34, 2nd patrol (17/10/39-12/11/39)
• volodya61: U-34, 3rd patrol (1/1/40-6/2/40)
• Targor Avelany: U-34, 4th patrol (11/3/40-30/3/40)
• keysersoze: U-34, 5th & 6th patrols (3/4/40-30/4/40, 22/6/40-18/7/40)
• gap: U-34, 7th patrol (23/7/40-3/8/40)

Is this okay with everyone? I think I included all those who expressed interest in helping, but let me know if I have excluded anybody. In the future, we will assign U-boat ranges, rather than single patrols.

Please post any suggestions or difficulties so we can create the most efficient process possible. This is exciting stuff guys! It will be a long process, but this could take SH5 to another level of dynamism, immersion, and fun.

EDIT: @gap - One suggestion I forgot to mention was perhaps allowing us to tag whether a ship was sunk by gunfire. uboat.net has a list of every merchant vessel sunk, so it is generally quite easy to determine whether it was a torpedo attack or deck gun attack. This could be very important for determining torpedo loadout for certain patrols. For example, on U-33's second patrol, she sank three small fishing vessels (all about 300 GRT) with her deck gun. I'm concerned that if I record three ships as sunk or damaged on this day, I will unnecessarily deprive Kplt. von Dresky of many of his eels.

Hi everyone,
Checking in. I've been verybusythe past couple days. I am playing catch up here so I'm reading and re-reading the past couple of days posts. I'm going to take you up on the "step by step" instructions. I'll be back.
D40

[Targor Avelany]

Love the idea.

I have only one problem: whenever I go to the link in post 49, I get the same spreadsheet, without updates or changes.

[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I just finished U-33's first patrol and have uploaded it to the google doc. We all should give gap a virtual round of applause (if not a standing ovation) for his incredible work on this generator. It is very straighforward and user-friendly, but the data it magically generates is anything but simple. I'm actually astounded by how easy it is to use.

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Before we open the floodgates and start the project for real, I think it would be best if each person does a single patrol--consider it a shakedown cruise. Then we can discuss any problems and offer suggestions for further refinement. If all goes well, I will start a new thread that will contain a concise summary of the project, step-by-step instructions for data collection, and U-boat assignments for each volunteer. I will update the assigments regularly so that you only need to glance at the first post to be reminded where to begin.

Excellent plan!

Originally Posted by keysersoze

For now, let's each look at a single patrol:

• Sartoris: U-34, 1st patrol (19/8/39-26/9/39)
• V13dweller: U-34, 2nd patrol (17/10/39-12/11/39)
• volodya61: U-34, 3rd patrol (1/1/40-6/2/40)
• Targor Avelany: U-34, 4th patrol (11/3/40-30/3/40)
• keysersoze: U-34, 5th & 6th patrols (3/4/40-30/4/40, 22/6/40-18/7/40)
• gap: U-34, 7th patrol (23/7/40-3/8/40)

Is this okay with everyone?

Yes sir
I am currently updating the patrols I had previous logged. So far I have almost finished with U-28's war patrols. Once I get them all ready I will proceed with your assignment.

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I think I included all those who expressed interest in helping, but let me know if I have excluded anybody. In the future, we will assign U-boat ranges, rather than single patrols.

Please post any suggestions or difficulties so we can create the most efficient process possible. This is exciting stuff guys! It will be a long process, but this could take SH5 to another level of dynamism, immersion, and fun.

I think that for the first patrols logged, it would be useful if everyone posted a screenshot of the map with the followed route with significant coordinates marked and/or a screenie of the settings set in the generator. This way, spotting possible mistakes would be easier, and we would learn from each other

P.S: a good website containing concise descriptions of each war patrol is u-historia.com. Unfortunately it is Spanish written. Nonetheless, taking the time to drag its texts in google translate or in babelfish might be worth the time, as its information can be a valid support.

Originally Posted by keysersoze

EDIT: @gap - One suggestion I forgot to mention was perhaps allowing us to tag whether a ship was sunk by gunfire. uboat.net has a list of every merchant vessel sunk, so it is generally quite easy to determine whether it was a torpedo attack or deck gun attack. This could be very important for determining torpedo loadout for certain patrols. For example, on U-33's second patrol, she sank three small fishing vessels (all about 300 GRT) with her deck gun. I'm concerned that if I record three ships as sunk or damaged on this day, I will unnecessarily deprive Kplt. von Dresky of many of his eels.

At the beginning I had started logging the estimated number of torpedoes used during each attack, but then I realized that this method was highly time-consuming, and that it might have been quite aleatory. At the end I opted for recording the number of attacks, leaving TDW to decide randomly the number of torpedoes used every time (with a remote probability that no torpedoes were used). I agree that by following this last method, we risk to overestimate the number of torpedo attacks over gunfire attacks (the latter being very common during the first months of the conflict), nonetheless I see a couple of advantages in it:

- more randomization and lesser probability of getting support during the early stages of the war, when group strategies were quite uncommon anyway;

- the possible torpedo usage overestimation is counterbalanced by a physiological degree of underestimation coming from the common evenience of torpedo failures, which we are not taking in account, and from failed torpedo attacks not listed in our sources.

Moreover, let's not forget that at the time being, the only use we can do of the "left torpedoes" information is for determining whether a given boat will be dispatched or not. I doubt that TDW can limit the number of torpedoes left on each supporting boat, based on our information.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Love the idea.

I have only one problem: whenever I go to the link in post 49, I get the same spreadsheet, without updates or changes.

Targor, you cannot work on that spreadsheet online. You need to download it. The one document that you can update online is the spreadsheet uploaded by keysersoze, used for storing the results obtained from the previous one

[Dogfish40]

Having trouble downloading the spreadsheet from post #49. When I hit the download icon it takes me to a "Page cannot be found" screen. It prompts me to download it though, as it says it is too big to view. I'll keep trying.
Am I screwing up here?

[gap]

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

Having trouble downloading the spreadsheet from post #49. When I hit the download icon it takes me to a "Page cannot be found" screen. It prompts me to download it though, as it says it is too big to view. I'll keep trying.
Am I screwing up here?

That link works for me. Anyway I have reuploaded the spreadsheet here

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Love the idea.

I have only one problem: whenever I go to the link in post 49, I get the same spreadsheet, without updates or changes.

Originally Posted by gap

Targor, you cannot work on that spreadsheet online. You need to download it. The one document that you can update online is the spreadsheet uploaded by keysersoze, used for storing the results obtained from the previous one

I was confused about this yesterday as well. I thought we were recording data in the online spreadsheet that would then be transferred into gap's more professional generator. It's pretty much the opposite of that. Basically, we do the following:

1. Download gap's U-boat coordinates generator.
2. Copy and paste information into the generator

a. Enter general information in the lower lefthand corner, including commander's name and rank, date patrol started, duration of patrol in days, and whether the U-boat carried any mines. Gap's program will automatically use this information to create a template for you to work with

b. Copy and paste U-boat's lat/long for each day of the patrol in the corresponding cell of the generator

c. Select one of the drop-down options from the "current activity" tab. Most are self explanatory, but you can refer to gap's description of them earlier in the tread

d. After you have entered positions and current activity for every day, simply highlight the yellow (output) cells

3. Paste the output from gap's generator into the google docs spreadsheet

a. Find the appropriate month/year tab in the lower lefthand corner of the spreadsheet

b. Find the correct type for your U-boat (VIIA, B, etc.)

c. If your U-boat is not yet listed for that month, add three rows, each labeled with your U-boat's number (these correspond to the output data you have already copied)

d. Highlight the first day of your U-boat's patrol

e. Paste the output data into that cell by pressing ctrl + v

It sounds more difficult/tedious than it actually is. Once you begin playing around with the generator and the spreadsheet, it all becomes fairly self-evident. There are additional functions to interpolate missing data in case uboat.net is missing the coordinates for that date. One final consideration: if your U-boat's patrol spans multiple months, you will need to copy and paste information separately for each month, since the master spreadsheet is divided by month.

[Sartoris]

Originally Posted by gap

That link works for me. Anyway I have reuploaded the spreadsheet here

It keeps loading, and then offering the "retry" option.

EDIT: Oh, wait, I had to download it. Got it!

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

Having trouble downloading the spreadsheet from post #49. When I hit the download icon it takes me to a "Page cannot be found" screen. It prompts me to download it though, as it says it is too big to view. I'll keep trying.
Am I screwing up here?

Originally Posted by Sartoris

It keeps loading, and then offering the "retry" option.

EDIT: Oh, wait, I had to download it. Got it!

Thanks again for your willingness to help Dogfish and Sartoris

Are either of you having trouble with the either the spreadsheet or the generator?

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by gap

I think that for the first patrols logged, it would be useful if everyone posted a screenshot of the map with the followed route with significant coordinates marked and/or a screenie of the settings set in the generator. This way, spotting possible mistakes would be easier, and we would learn from each other

Excellent idea

Posting screenshots would work well. I have also reorganized our google drive account so that everything relating to our project is contained within the "U-boat Coordinates Project" folder. There is another copy of your coordinates generator there so people can find it without hunting through other links.

I also created a folder called "Completed Patrols," where I have uploaded the three patrols I've done so far. The file labeled "U-33,1," for example, means "U-33, 1st patrol." I don't know whether this is a tenable method in the long term, but if we upload our completed patrols there, we can all access each other's work and make necessary corrections (including adding in crew experience levels) without having to re-do everything. What do you think?

Originally Posted by gap

P.S: a good website containing concise descriptions of each war patrol is u-historia.com. Unfortunately it is Spanish written. Nonetheless, taking the time to drag its texts in google translate or in babelfish might be worth the time, as its information can be a valid support.

Yep, u-historia.com is a great website and even my very rusty Spanish is sufficient to use it. Anybody with a bit of Spanish might want to check it out. I've also been using Wynn's two-volume, titled U-boat operations of the Second World War, which contains written descriptions for every patrol. Since I'm tired to going to the library every time I want to reference it, I recently purchased copies. There's no reason for anyone to do the same, but let me know if you run into inconsistent information and I will see if Wynn has anything to say about it.

Originally Posted by gap

At the beginning I had started logging the estimated number of torpedoes used during each attack...

Your arguments are persuasive like always

[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I was confused about this yesterday as well. I thought we were recording data in the online spreadsheet that would then be transferred into gap's more professional generator. It's pretty much the opposite of that. Basically, we do the following:

...

It sounds more difficult/tedious than it actually is. Once you begin playing around with the generator and the spreadsheet, it all becomes fairly self-evident. There are additional functions to interpolate missing data in case uboat.net is missing the coordinates for that date. One final consideration: if your U-boat's patrol spans multiple months, you will need to copy and paste information separately for each month, since the master spreadsheet is divided by month.

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Posting screenshots would work well. I have also reorganized our google drive account so that everything relating to our project is contained within the "U-boat Coordinates Project" folder. There is another copy of your coordinates generator there so people can find it without hunting through other links.

I also created a folder called "Completed Patrols," where I have uploaded the three patrols I've done so far. The file labeled "U-33,1," for example, means "U-33, 1st patrol." I don't know whether this is a tenable method in the long term, but if we upload our completed patrols there, we can all access each other's work and make necessary corrections (including adding in crew experience levels) without having to re-do everything. What do you think?

Good idea! How can we upload our files into that folder?

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Yep, u-historia.com is a great website and even my very rusty Spanish is sufficient to use it. Anybody with a bit of Spanish might want to check it out.

I have been testing google translate on an random u-historia page, and I must say that the resulting output in English language was more than acceptable:

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I've also been using Wynn's two-volume, titled U-boat operations of the Second World War, which contains written descriptions for every patrol. Since I'm tired to going to the library every time I want to reference it, I recently purchased copies. There's no reason for anyone to do the same, but let me know if you run into inconsistent information and I will see if Wynn has anything to say about it.

[volodya61]

Sorry guys
I can't do anything right now.. maybe a little bit later.. some RL troubles ..

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

Sorry guys
I can't do anything right now.. maybe a little bit later.. some RL troubles ..

Sorry Volodya, I hope you will to sort out your troubles soon

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by volodya61

Sorry guys
I can't do anything right now.. maybe a little bit later.. some RL troubles ..

No problem volodya... real life has to come first. I hope you get everything sorted out

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by gap

Good idea! How can we upload our files into that folder?

@gap I've made some changes the setting of the "Completed Patrols" folder. Can you upload anything now?

I'm not certain about this yet, but I think that you will need to have gmail account to be able to upload into the "Completed Patrols" folder. Do most people have a one? I would like to avoid requiring volunteers to create a new account; we want to have the fewest obstacles possible so we can attract the maximum number of collaborators