Two perspectives on Israel

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

What an entrance!

That guy....just picked an argument with Skybird.....

Sorry new guy...you are going to be locked in an intense battle very soon.

P.S. Welcome to Subsim.

[Skybird]

To complain about Israel'S "apartheid" but apparently having no objections to Israel'S enemy claiming the right to destroy Israel, use of terrorism, stepping back from all temporary negotiation agreements in a bid to get all what it wants without needing to compromise, and not complaining much about the immense terrorism Israel has faced and still faces, says which thinking's brainchild the debator is. And it is this die-hard one-sided bias that forgives the attacker all and accuses the victim of everything that has made Sweden so famous for itsr anti-Israeli views even by the standards of the already quite anti-Israeli EU-policies. Naturally, they have no problem with the racism and hate-dripping education young Palestinian Arabs get raised with at all. But dare to have a cartoon posted that offends precious Muslim sensitivity! Swedish voices were amongst the most prominent and loudest recommending Europe to act with more self-censorship when using their freedom of speech.

Before lecturing Israel about its lacking right for self-defense, maybe better try to stop the many incidents of physical harassments and attacks of Muslims against Jews in and around Malmö. Malmö is one of the hotspots of European Muslim racism and racism-founded refusal to integrate. so if no longer only the Jews flee from there, but native Swedish non-Jews as well, this is no surprise.

Google search on "Sweden anti Israel" or something like that will quickly reveal the full scale of Sweden's stand on Israel. Sweden is probably the strongest European ally of ME radical islam and radical Arabs in the ME, maybe beside France. And let'S not be mistaken, this anti-Israeli position bases in full on clear and true anti-Jewish sentiments as well. The level of antisemitism in Sweden is only compared by researchers to that found in the traditional antisemitic social-political spectrum of Germany and Austria.

Just three random links of so many possible to put up here:

http://swedenisrael.blogspot.de/2013...t-swedish.html

http://ilyameyer.com/english/2013/03...unrwa-schools/

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/author/ilya-meyer/

The truth is quite simple. Sweden in principle wants Israel being wiped off the map and shake hands with the Arabs over the accomplished task. That, plain and simple. Thus the many political advices, one-sided demands and recipes given for how to commit cultural and national suicide, demonizing Israel all the way. It is about turning back the clocks by 70 years.

To complain about Israel'S "apartheid" but apparently having no objections to Israel'S enemy claiming the right to destroy Israel, stepping back from all temproary negotiation agreements in a bid to get all what it wants withiout needing to compromise, and not complaining much about the immense terrorism Israel has faced and still faces, says which thinking'S brainchild the debator is. And it is this die-hard one-sided bias that forgives the attacker all and accuses the victim of everything that has made Finland, Sweden so famous for their anti-Israelic views even by the standards of the already quite anti-Israeli EU-policies.

Lesson 1 Alan B'stard.
Always expect the amazing attack of the strawman
Lesson 2.
Expect a series of links that are as unbised as a Hamas publication

[MH]

Is there apartheid in Israel?
That is something you should've start with.
If it is then it is also in germany sweeden and so on....

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by MH

Is there apartheid in Israel?
That is something you should've start with.
If it is then it is also in germany sweeden and so on....

yah, for some reason people are always very quick to find faults in Israel, but conveniently overlook all the human rights abuses in all other countries in the ME. Funny how that works...

yah, for some reason people are always very quick to find faults in Israel, but conveniently overlook all the human rights abuses in all other countries in the ME. Funny how that works...

Which people?
What is funny about the way it works is those people who fault only one side be it the israeli side or the palestinians, or those that queue up to defend the very things they condemn depending on which country is doing exactly the same thing.

[Skybird]

After the terror blast on a bus in Hungary, Germany seems to be part of a very small minority in Europe that demands that the Hezbollah finally is being pout on the EU terror list. Most are against it. They fear that this move would make it difficult for them to maintain talks with this terror organization that without discrimination targets civilian people, and does not shy away to put its own people in harm'S way and force them with drawn weapons to serve as human shields and get them killed to score in the media propaganda war by having nice pictures of the bodies. That does nto stop most European politicians from wantin g to shake hands with these murderers.

The argument often given is that Hezbollah runs a recruiting program deceiving itself as social wellfare, and that even when its school teach blatant hate and murder and demonization of Jews and diffamation of Christians, they nevertheless are schools.

Well, if you enter a bank and shoot the staff and steal the money and distribute it to the poor and unemployed, your act nevertheless is that of a robbery and murder and yourself still fit the description of a murderer.

[Safe-Keeper]

Always expect the amazing attack of the strawman

I didn't see strawmen in his post, I saw a description of lots an lots of "Palestine supporters" I've had the displeasure of speaking to over the years. While it might not have applied to anyone in this thread, I don't think it was intended to, either.

2) Sweden's anti-Israel stance is because of the Israeli apartheid regime.

Just a little tip before I ask you for a source for that statement: when discussing Israel or in fact any country with someone, throwing out accusations like "apartheid" without any logical foundation (or apparent understanding about what the word even means) is a very, very good way to paint yourself as a zealot, ensuring you will not be taken seriously.
I'm not saying this to attack you, I'm genuenly trying to help you out here.

An Apartheid state is one that has a systematic, government-sanctioned divide between two groups based on their ethnic belonging. In an apartheid country, you have different schools, hospitals, buses, toilets, neighbourhoods and even drinking fountains and benches for the different groups. Group A doesn't get to share any kind of facility with Group B, and if they do, they have to be kept separate (coloured people confined to the back of buses in the US, for example). From top to bottom, Apartheid states are segregated regimes.

Israel, whose ambassador in Norway is Arabic, and which lets foreigners (including Arabs in the Palestinian areas) visit and receive the same education and medical care as the citizens, at the same facilities, at the same cost, and where miss Israel is an Arab, is not, by any kind of definition, an Apartheid country unless you really cherry-pick incidents and policies and twist the definition of the word to the unrecognisable.

As another poster said, though, while you can do this with words like "terror state", "apartheid" and "ethnic cleansing", doing this would mean most other countries, both in and outside of the Western world, would also suddenly become apartheid regimes, terror states, ethnic cleansers, etc.

Oh, and: got a source for that statement?

I didn't see strawmen in his post

Really?
It makes a huge assumption against the individual concerned and attacks that assumption.
Secondly it flies in the face of the very public policies of the country in question so is also attacking another non existant arguement.

I saw a description of lots an lots of "Palestine supporters" I've had the displeasure of speaking to over the years

Yes, and you can put them on the same level as lots of Israel "supporters".
But on an individual level and a national level the arguement is false so it is a strawman he is after building.