Be watching for an Update on Starforce from Toms Hardware!!!

[Brentano]

If I run into problems, will a re-install of the Windows OS solve it?

[Soulcommander]

Originally Posted by Brentano

If I run into problems, will a re-install of the Windows OS solve it?

A reformat will get rid of it of course. Or you can use the removal tool from Starforce and trust that. I myself reformatted. If you built your own system then I know you are confident that you can reinstall everything. It's just time consuming is all.
Remember if you break the seal on the game you can't take it back.

If you find you want nothing to do with the game after install...contact me and I will help you with that matter...

Good luck.

SC

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Well, it follows the basic outline of a rootkit since it replaces drivers or changes the way your system interoprates with a said component, and attempts to hide itself in the process, so it is definitely a rootkit.

First of all, it was pointed out a gazillion times that it doesn´t hide itself. I just doesn´t! And it isn´t a rootkit. A rootkit is, strictly speaking, something that *intentionally* helps to hide something or *intentionally* helps to intrude a system. Any other piece of software that does that unintentionally can only be called a shoddy piece of work, there are quite a few examples of software/drivers doing that.

Sony´s DRM software also wasn´t a rootkit. It "merely" used stealth or rootkit-like techniques which unfortunately could be used by malware to hide themselves. SF doesn´t use the any of the stealth methods the Sony protection uses.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

First of all, it was pointed out a gazillion times that it doesn´t hide itself. I just doesn´t! And it isn´t a rootkit. A rootkit is, strictly speaking, something that *intentionally* helps to hide something or *intentionally* helps to intrude a system. Any other piece of software that does that unintentionally can only be called a shoddy piece of work, there are quite a few examples of software/drivers doing that.

Sony´s DRM software also wasn´t a rootkit. It "merely" used stealth or rootkit-like techniques which unfortunately could be used by malware to hide themselves. SF doesn´t use the any of the stealth methods the Sony protection uses.

Ahh, you're wrong... Last time I checked, it does an admirable job of hiding itself and making itself hard to find! Try and remove it even without 'special' software.

-S

PS. You work for SF or something?

[ThirteenthHouR]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Let me get this right, the 1-6 list and the idea to call it "the definition of a Trojankit" didn´t come from ThirteenthHouR or SC?

Lets get something clear here.

Do you use the term Rootkit?

Are you aware that before Mark coined the phrase and or definition. The term did not exist previously?

Now as the person who has been posting fixes concerning a number of these SF related issues on the net. I thought it important that there should be single word which can be referenced, that would not subject peeps to litigation and would be very clear and concise as to what it refers to.

With Marks Rootkit being similar in some respect, the Term Kit was kept, however with this also relating to Ringo 0 access. Trojan Gateway is at the forefront.

Hence 'TrojanKit'.

"This prevents the industry from saying, but our software is not a rootkit" , "Marks definition says so" or words to that effect. In much the same way as you have said in previous posts about SF.

In other words it puts to bed that silly argument.

It may be possible that in future they will say the same about TrojanKits after they have resorted to some other fool idea for copy protection. However we will cross that Bridge when we come to it.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by Brentano

If I run into problems, will a re-install of the Windows OS solve it?

As SC said, you can use the SF uninstaller. It´s easy to check if the uninstaller really removed SF by checking several things.

[ThirteenthHouR]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

As SC said, you can use the SF uninstaller. It´s easy to check if the uninstaller really removed SF by checking several things.

Unless you are using XP64 then it does not work.

Should it go belly up and you have to manually remove.

1. Remove these files:
%SystemRoot%\system32\drivers\sfsync03.sys
%SystemRoot%\system32\drivers\sfhlp02.sys
%SystemRoot%\system32\drivers\sfdrv01.sys

2. Remove these registry keys:
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\sfsync03
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\sfhlp02
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\sfdrv01

Should you run into a (Code 41) error in the device manager then follow this howto.

How to cure (Code 41) error in the device manager.

Should you still have DMA problems then follow this howto:

How to cure DMA step down of DVD/CD rom drives

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Ahh, you're wrong... Last time I checked, it does an admirable job of hiding itself and making itself hard to find!

It does? It´s visible in the Non-PNP driver section like many other drivers and the three SF drivers in system32 are not hidden.

Try and remove it even without 'special' software.

Never tried to remove it manually, that´s what the removal tool is there for. If I wanted to I could probably remove it manually, it doesn´t look too difficult.

PS. You work for SF or something?

Yes. And I´ve also killed Bambie´s mother and Mahatma Gandhi.

[sik1977]

Originally Posted by Brentano

Cool. I'm graduating from law school this May. This whole starforce thing is very interesting from a legal standpoint. It almost has the scent of a class-action.

It's especially interesting if the developer and publisher, Ubisoft, knew about the problem before they released the game. They did include a lame "disclaimer" on the box and in the manual.

You mentioned 'class-action', I take it you are doing your JD from one of the US law schools. I did my LLB and LLM from University of London (UK) and practice in my home country (Pakistan - most probably the only one in my country playing SH3 which I got while in London last year). We have public interest litigation but it is a somewhat different beast then 'class-actions' you may be used to in US.

Anyhow, as far as the 'disclaimer' goes, if it ever comes before a court it will be weighed against whatever consumer protection laws you have in place. In UK for example, we have the Consumer Protection Act (rather complicated and not the best around), and the Unfair Contract Terms Act (UCTA) which deals with, inter alia, such disclaimers and tests them against a Section 11 reasonableness test under UCTA. Hence, any disclaimer which is unreasonable or tries to get away with any and all liability for ones actions, specially against consumers, has a good chance of falling foul of UCTA. Also Sale of Goods Act states that goods must be of satisfactory quality and fulflil the stated purpose to a reasonable extent (can't remember the exact S.14 text, but you can look it up). Any such goods if found to be less then satisfactory quality can be returned to the seller with appropriate claim for damages. If Starforce can be shown to damage hardware then SH3 can also be considered to be of non-satisfactory quality and the disclaimer if falling foul of UCTA won't indemnify UBISOFT.

I for one love SH3 and enjoy it without Starforce, as the laws in my country don't disallow use of third party tools to make backup copies or No-DVDs. The EULA is ofcourse a contractual issue between me and UBISOFT which can be enforced in my country (depending on the applicable law of the EULA ofcourse).

P.s' Check your inbox Brentano... I sent you a disclaimer....

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

It does? It´s visible in the Non-PNP driver section like many other drivers and the three SF drivers in system32 are not hidden.

Never tried to remove it manually, that´s what the removal tool is there for. If I wanted to I could probably remove it manually, it doesn´t look too difficult.

Yes. And I´ve also killed Bambie´s mother and Mahatma Gandhi.

Hahaha! Don't make me laugh! You should be nicer to Bambie's mother, but Ghandi - oh well.

Starforce is hidden as well as a rootkit can be hid without physically replacing a physical driver on the system. As far as I know, there is no way to actually 'hide' a driver. Simply looking at Device Manager does not show Starforce. Steps were even taken to make sure it does not appear in the default view - the only way to find it is to stumble across it in connection view (Make sure you turn on Show Hidden Devices - a little clue that it is hidden!!!). It does not show up as a service. It does not show up in add/remove programs. It is hidden so well that the PC Gamer office had no idea it was even there until they were told to look for it!

So, given the above evidence, how can you sit there with a straight face and say "It is not hidden"?

-S

PS. Oh an inkling of how you remove it manually (and this all that is actually known at this point) is posted above. It is not as easy as you describe by any means.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by ThirteenthHouR

Lets get something clear here.

Do you use the term Rootkit?

Yes.

Are you aware that before Mark coined the phrase and or definition. The term did not exist previously?

The term "rootkit" existed long before that.

Now as the person who has been posting fixes concerning a number of these SF related issues on the net. I thought it important that there should be single word which can be referenced, that would not subject peeps to litigation and would be very clear and concise as to what it refers to.

You´ve used the term "Trojan Kit" in an intentionally wrong and polemic way and you know that very well. You were looking for a buzzword, very tabloid-style. I do understand why you did that, just as I understand why Mark did that, but I don´t find it good. It´s unjournalistic.

[Soulcommander]

Gizzmoe I ask that you please calm down. I don't see what drives you to do this. Phrases, terms, cliche's...all expressions or ideas to express in one word or two the description or definition of a meaning or idea.

From the dawn of time man has given words to objects. That time has not stood still. In this technology age we live in there are new terms and words popping up all the time.

I would think you would let this go Gizz.... Give yourself and all of us a break please. If you don't like the term your point has been made.

[sik1977]

Originally Posted by Soulcommander

Gizzmoe I ask that you please calm down. I don't see what drives you to do this. Phrases, terms, cliche's...all expressions or ideas to express in one word or two the description or definition of a meaning or idea.

From the dawn of time man has given words to objects. That time has not stood still. In this technology age we live in there are new terms and words popping up all the time.

I would think you would let this go Gizz.... Give yourself and all of us a break please. If you don't like the term your point has been made.

Touché...

Yes Gizz, stop trolling....

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by Soulcommander

Gizzmoe I ask that you please calm down. I don't see what drives you to do this. [...] I would think you would let this go Gizz.... Give yourself and all of us a break please. If you don't like the term your point has been made.

Larry, this is a topic that interests me and I´ve every right to voice my opinion and I have the right to question certain things. I want to understand their standpoint, that´s all. If they cannot make they standpoint clear or if it´s IMO illogical I will continue to ask questions. If some people don´t like that that´s their problem, not mine.

[GT182]

That's your right I agree. But the way you come off with it, it makes us wonder if you're working for StarForce. I'm not the only one that thinks that either... many others are having the same thoughts. So by the way you ask questions and make statements you just confirm what we think.