What Japanese history lessons leave out - a BBC article

[Sailor Steve]

None of us learns any of the bad stuff in school. The difference is that in most western countries you stumble across it sooner or later. You don't have to go to another country before it's even mentioned.

Fascinating article, Jamie. Thanks for the link.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

None of us learns any of the bad stuff in school

Yet I wrote a paper and did a presentation about the Bataan death march in 5th grade.

Important lessons for mankind to learn

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

I remember when my history class got to WW2 in aroun Jr High/Middle school, and I really didn't learn anything that I didn't already know since I started reading about WW2 way back in the 5th or 6th grade mainly cause I got fed up with "America this, America that, America does everything."

Also Platapus makes a good point, here in the good 'ol US of A we're taught that we won every war we've ever fought without any help from anyone, however not everyone is taught that way it greatly depends on the teacher and the history books that are supplied to the schools too.

[the_tyrant]

Just some observations about historical education:

In Canada, I had to take 1 course in 4 years of high school. The course was VERY shallow, just some introductory history, basic concepts, etc. The course itself was a very basic course, mainly focused on names, dates, and locations. The tests and stuff kind of felt like Mad Libs

ex: [person] killed [person] in a bunker in Berlin in [year], his replacement [person] negotiated peace with the allied forces.

In China, most high school students don't learn history, but in middle school, history comprised of two courses, history class, and political science class. In history class, we were stuck with mad libs style tests and basic names, dates, and locations cramming style teaching. Than, we had political science, a course filled with time spent teaching and hand held analysis of political and historical issues. It is really biased, and the "analysis" was never more than just "memorize what this famous politician had to say about communism!"


Yeah, history education for most students is really lacking. I mean, the issue comes down to, most students don't enjoy history, or feel that they need to learn it. History is often looked down as "do this course if you want to be stuck studying liberal arts in university" (especially in china, where people believe that the only 3 courses worth doing is Math, Physics, and Chemistry).



I learned more about history arguing with people on the internet than I ever did in a class

[Takeda Shingen]

The thing is that students in America know substantially more about The Civil War and The Second World War than they do regarding just about anything else in American or world history. On the whole, they also know a lot more about the wars in general than they do about other events. Some of that is to be expected, as it is easier to sell students on the sexy and exciting Second World War than it is the relatively mundane Louisiana Purchase. Countless times I have heard students in passing say "I can't wait until we get to the Civil War", or "I can't wait until we get to World War II", etc. I never hear "man, I can't wait until we get to the Homestead Act."

[em2nought]

Personally, I think we(USA) don't glorify what we once were enough. Maybe it's so that people will more readily accept what we have now become.

The founding fathers were frackin' Jedi!

Jar-Jar Binks is in charge now, that goes for both sides of the isle.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by em2nought

Personally, I think we(USA) don't glorify what we once were enough.

We never were what we once were. Yes, the Founders had the advantage of an Enlightenment education, studying the likes of Newton and Locke, and they had an opportunity no one else had before, to create a new government using what they had learned. They came up with a system that still manages to work today despite two hundred years of people consistently trying to get around it, if not actually tear it down.

And when it came to running that government, they weren't any better at it than our leaders today are. They squabbled, they fought, they backstabbed and they compromised. They said they wanted a partyless system, and then they created parties. Mention any great Founding Father and if you don't already know I can show you stories that will make your hair stand on end.

They were every bit as human as we are.

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

We never were what we once were. Yes, the Founders had the advantage of an Enlightenment education, studying the likes of Newton and Locke, and they had an opportunity no one else had before, to create a new government using what they had learned. They came up with a system that still manages to work today despite two hundred years of people consistently trying to get around it, if not actually tear it down.

And when it came to running that government, they weren't any better at it than our leaders today are. They squabbled, they fought, they backstabbed and they compromised. They said they wanted a partyless system, and then they created parties. Mention any great Founding Father and if you don't already know I can show you stories that will make your hair stand on end.

They were every bit as human as we are.

Absolutely. If we're being generous, the "idyllic" period of American political history lasts maybe for the first six months of Washington's first term. And that's to ignore all the intrigue and political infighting that lead up to the creation of the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution. By the second year of Washington's presidency, we were already violently suppressing a full-blown tax rebellion, while American politics was bitterly divided over questions about government centralization and our foreign relationships, especially with France. The backstabbing and political pettiness of early Americans was every bit then as widespread as it is today.

No, I think the problem is we are far too willing glorify the Founding Fathers and create grandiose mythologies about our country's beginnings.

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

No, I think the problem is we are far too willing glorify the Founding Fathers and create grandiose mythologies about our country's beginnings.

In short doing what popular history has always been about. It's no wonder that when you have to teach a huge amount of people certain things to create the master story and common reality where they can live in, you must simplify things. Pretty much everyone is doing that.

Of course whether it's ideal or not is a completely different question. But to play devil's advocate, do ask yourself: how would you do it effectively while still considering as many perspectives as possible?

[Sailor Steve]

@ CaptainMattJ: You went to school in California. I suspect that Platapus may have gone to school somewhere in the deep south. My late friend Rocky spent a year in high school somewhere in that region, and he told me that it took two weeks to get to the Civil War and two weeks to get to the present. The rest was spent you-know-where.

He also said that his history teacher once said "I know that some of you think I believe that Robert E. Lee was the greatest man ever to walk the face of this earth. That is not so. I am fully aware that our Lord Jesus Christ also walked the face of this earth!"

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Yet I wrote a paper and did a presentation about the Bataan death march in 5th grade.

Important lessons for mankind to learn

When I said "bad stuff" I was referring to our own atrocities, not ones done to us.

I live just inside the last Indian reservation (for lack of the proper term) that Ohio had.
I can walk to the boundry line out my back door.
Col. Crawford was burned at the stake just a few miles away.
One of the first State Roads running North/South is just out the front door.

Aside from the stake burning?
I didn't learn any of that at school. And We live here!

Johnny Appleseed and all that.

When I said "bad stuff" I was referring to our own atrocities, not ones done to us.

Maybe he put some blame on Roosevelt, MacArthur and the local government

[Jimbuna]

I've no complaints regarding history teaching during my schooling, we covered most things but admittedly not in any great depth.

As a child I learned a lot from books and yes, tv films.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

tv films.

The Bad: Some people just accept what they see as history.

The Good: I owe most of my love of history to teleplays. Six Wives Of Henry VIII got me to start reading about the Tudor era. I, Claudius got me interested in Ancient Rome. It was fun reading up on the subjects and finding out just how much they got right and wrong.

I just finished watching Rome for the first time and rewatching I, Claudius for the seventh or eighth tme, and I found myself researching each character after the show was over. It's amazing how much you can learn online.