Free will. Free will?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Usually it's a religious question. Most religions teach that sin or evil was allowed by God to give us free will so that we could decide to choose him or not. This works with the hell doctrine, that if we go there, it's our own choosing. The problem with that is do we as failed human beings with many human factors that effect us really have free will to make the right choice. It's our brain, but it was shaped and indoctrinated to believe what it does.

That's one of the ones I really enjoyed at the Catholic High School I attended. The Augustinian priests there were very open in their discussions.

God may have given us free will, but if he already knows the outcome then how is our decision our own? The difference between predestination and foreordination is as big as the universe, yet so tiny it's only a word or two away.

[Sailor Steve]

No thought is ours until it can be expressed in words. Immediately a thought is expressed in words, it returns to the brain as an idea upon which we can work.

Then maybe it's a good thing I talk to myself so much...

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

God may have given us free will, but if he already knows the outcome then how is our decision our own? The difference between predestination and foreordination is as big as the universe, yet so tiny it's only a word or two away.

He knows the outcome, but doesn't change/control our will

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Betonov

He knows the outcome, but doesn't change/control our will

That's my take on it as well, and that's the difference between predestination and foreordination. Still, it's made for some fun discussions over the years.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Betonov

He knows the outcome, but doesn't change/control our will

The bigger question is, what is our will and how free are we to decide it? Which goes to he created evil for a purpose to make us failed beings, but still our eternal fate rest on our decisions. Also seems that most don't choose God willingly, but simply out of fear of being tortured by him for all eternity, so in that, fear as a factor plays a role in our decision. I could say I'm in love with a girl, I could place a gun against her head and tell her if she doesn't say she loves me, I will shoot. She will say she loves me out of fear.

Simply, they're many factors in our make up, not of our choosing, that makes us choose one way or the other. Is that true free will?

[Takeda Shingen]

Thomas Aquinas give the commonly-held Catholic answer. Here's a good synopsis for those of you not willing to read the entire Summa Theologiae.

http://www.aquinasonline.com/Topics/freewill.html