Stephen King on US gun contols.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Not to impugn your unarmed abilities, but I have had full-contact sessions against a number of vets, and I had left unimpressed. While those techniques may be effective in the chaos of the battlefield, my experience there is no substitute for concentrated and formalized martial arts training, at least in isolated combat. The times when I've been rocked, and I mean really rocked, it's been by specialists.

That depends on what the person did in the military.I bet the guys you spared with where where mechanics or something of this nature in that case the most training they got in the military was some basic hand to hand stuff back in basic training.Many former military will claim to have been one job but if you where to look at their DD214 discharge papers they where really a cook and only deadly to powered milk.

Now an infantryman would be much better in fact they have a pride about hand to hand combat so they can be pretty good fighters but not ever infantryman is best at hand to hand.Now you spare with a former elite forces member that man would be pretty tough unless he got really lazy after he left the military.

I worked with this very mild mannered man that was a former Navy Seal only he never bragged about it or really even mentioned it.One day we where walked out of this gas station and for some reason or another this younger black kid got really mad because the ex SEAL (who also is a black person not sure if that is why the kid started the problem or not) bumped into him and embarrassed him in front of his "Gs".

The young kid(he was over 18 but young) was right the ex SEALs face talking smack and the whole time he just stood there and I am thinking "if this kid makes the mistake of striking its over." The whole time though ex SEAL is calm and quite.Finally the kid took a swing and the reactions was so fast and violent from the ex SEAL I could not tell what happened but the swing got blocked and a few strikes had the kid on the ground hardly able to breath.His "Gs" who appeared ready to bum rush just stood there in fear and you could tell that this action was a mild effort on part of my SEAL co-worker.

I often think what would that ex SEAL have done in a life or death situation? I don't know but it would have been very bad for the attacker.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I bet the guys you spared with where where mechanics or something of this nature in that case the most training they got in the military was some basic hand to hand stuff back in basic training.

You'd bet wrong. I'll leave it at that.

I worked with this very mild mannered man that was a former Navy Seal only he never bragged about it or really even mentioned it.One day we where walked out of this gas station and for some reason or another this younger black kid got really mad because the ex SEAL (who also is a black person not sure if that is why the kid started the problem or not) bumped into him and embarrassed him in front of his "Gs".

The young kid(he was over 18 but young) was right the ex SEALs face talking smack and the whole time he just stood there and I am thinking "if this kid makes the mistake of striking its over." The whole time though ex SEAL is calm and quite.Finally the kid took a swing and the reactions was so fast and violent from the ex SEAL I could not tell what happened but the swing got blocked and a few strikes had the kid on the ground hardly able to breath.His "Gs" who appeared ready to bum rush just stood there in fear and you could tell that this action was a mild effort on part of my SEAL co-worker.

I often think what would that ex SEAL have done in a life or death situation? I don't know but it would have been very bad for the attacker.

Cool story. Of course, even I can sling punk kids around. I wonder how your SEAL friend would fare against a real master. I don't know myself, but I am certain that it won't be like dealing with some street thug. Of course, anyone who has really practiced isn't going around picking fights. That's kind of antithetical to the philosophy. I was taught to use what I know defensively; something to which I adhere.

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I was taught to use what I know defensively; something to which I adhere.

A Warrior would say that.

hold on, does that mean if you are out there, you do not point a thing at me if i break your lock?
but in the city, i shall stare at a barrel?

Its almost like he is saying there should be different firearm regulations for urban and rural isn't it.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

You'd bet wrong. I'll leave it at that.



Cool story. Of course, even I can sling punk kids around. I wonder how your SEAL friend would fare against a real master. I don't know myself, but I am certain that it won't be like dealing with some street thug. Of course, anyone who has really practiced isn't going around picking fights. That's kind of antithetical to the philosophy. I was taught to use what I know defensively; something to which I adhere.

Did I say that the former SEAL picked the fight? He did not he merely kept the other person from harming him he was actually trying to walk away as best he could with someone pressing into him.

I don't now it would depend when one takes into consideration that a master in reference to a martial art such a person would never go around picking fights either.In all honesty what are the odds of a person skilled in martial arts encountering another so skilled in an uncollected situation? I would say rather slim.

The odds of a skilled person encountering unskilled person are very high though and underestimating anyone is a rather grave mistake in some cases literally.

I used to practice a fair bit of Tae Kwon Do I spared many times however I have also been in a few real life hand to hand situations and I see many differences for starters one is a controlled situation with rules and another is an uncontrolled situation with no rules what so ever a warrior does not show their true effect until they in a situation where no rules apply in other words in a war zone where they can kill their foe if need be without consequence.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Did I say that the former SEAL picked the fight? He did not he merely kept the other person from harming him he was actually trying to walk away as best he could with someone pressing into him.

Did I say that he picked the fight? I said that it was unlikely that a martial artist is going to pick a fight with a guy because he bumped into him. As such, we're probably not going to know the answer to the question I asked.

As for the rest, I have had to use what I know only once. It was very quick and done, without a single blow being landed. I was fortunate for what I knew, as I would have been seriously injured without it. That being said, I do not think my chances of 'encountering' anyone are very high. I can't remember the last time that I saw a street fight, let alone have someone be physically belligerent. Verbally belligerent is a different matter, but I always choose to walk away. Aggression is a poor problem solver.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Cool story. Of course, even I can sling punk kids around. I wonder how your SEAL friend would fare against a real master. I don't know myself, but I am certain that it won't be like dealing with some street thug. Of course, anyone who has really practiced isn't going around picking fights. That's kind of antithetical to the philosophy. I was taught to use what I know defensively; something to which I adhere.

Military as far as i can tell is not very much about martial arts.
In some cases one is thought some nasty offensive and defensive moves to be used in tight situations to resolve the issue quickly with full determination....and that's it.
Also helpful for those that never in their lives had some serious fights and joined the military.

There is no time for years and years of training with martial arts and it would be pointless.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by MH

Military as far as i can tell is not very much about martial arts.
In some cases one is thought some nasty offensive and defensive moves to be used in tight situations to resolve the issue quickly with full determination....and that's it.
Also helpful for those that never in their lives had some serious fights and joined the military.

There is no time for years and years of training with martial arts and it would be pointless.

Actually your quite wrong on this one many armed forces do in fact use martial arts a good example is the Marine Corps they have the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program.(MCMAP) you can read more about it here. The Israeli Defense Force has Krav Maga the Soviet Union/Russia has Systemia i could go on and on.

Also elite forces do in fact train very heavily in various forms of martial arts very extensively much more so the the standard far that is taught to everyone.

There is a very important difference between the things a military force might teach and focus on rather than a traditional martial art.A solider or member of an elite force their job is to kill the most likely form of combat they are likely to face is hand to hand combat where they or the other person is trying to get the other down on the ground in order to gain control and kill the other by what ever means is available if just the hands and arms are available then they are going to strike the person in the face until they expire or strangle the person.

My father once got into a hand to hand combat situation in Vietnam the person was so close to him that he attempted to strike the person in the face with his rifle but he man saw this and tackled my father before he could strike his rifle got knocked away and enemy pulled out a knife they fought over the knife my father got the knife and stabbed the person but they kept fighting anyway and where trying to gouge my fathers eyes out.Finally my father managed to strangle the enemy solider to death.Sorry to be so blunt but that is what a person in combat faces when it gets up close and personal.It is much different than sparing even if its full contact its much different than a street fight as these rarely actually end in death.

For a civilian martial arts are much more about a life style(or it is supposed to be) and are mainly there to instill a certain discipline in a person most actions a martial artist performs are a way to show to others of that same art their level of skill and dedication to the art.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Actually your quite wrong on this one many armed forces do in fact use martial arts a good example is the Marine Corps they have the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program.(MCMAP) you can read more about it here. The Israeli Defense Force has Krav Maga the Soviet Union/Russia has Systemia i could go on and on.

Also elite forces do in fact train very heavily in various forms of martial arts very extensively much more so the the standard far that is taught to everyone.

....again it is mostly about specific tight situation that need to be resolved with full determination.
Actually that what is krav maga all about.
It has nothing to do with the way martial arts are thought in civilian life ....i mean the military style.
It give an edge against next guy you meet but not necessary one that knows what he is doing.

[August]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I was taught to use what I know defensively; something to which I adhere.

You better use it defensively or you'll go to prison for a long time. The courts take a dim view of those with martial arts training attacking others.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by August

You better use it defensively or you'll go to prison for a long time. The courts take a dim view of those with martial arts training attacking others.

Yes. And birds go tweet.