I'm watching Run Silent, Run Deep on TCM. Question.

[Aras]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Well the movie was made in 1958, special effects of that time weren't that great.

The enemy below was made in 1957 and the special effects were better in my opinion.

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

And last time I checked, the US did defeat the Japanese.

I meant individual situations like in this case, surfaced sub vs destroyer and surfaced sub vs planes. If a destroyer detects a surfaced sub, the best action to take is definetly heading for a collision with the sub, don't mind to try shooting at it, since the guns they carry is just for appearance

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by Aras

The enemy below was made in 1957 and the special effects were better in my opinion.




I meant individual situations like in this case, surfaced sub vs destroyer and surfaced sub vs planes. If a destroyer detects a surfaced sub, the best action to take is definetly heading for a collision with the sub, don't mind to try shooting at it, since the guns they carry is just for appearance

Well I haven't seen The Enemy Below so I can't speak about it's special effects. The best action to take regarding a destroyer spotting a surfaced submarine is definitely to head towards it, but not just to ram it. The guns on a destroyer are certainly for more than just show. Against a submarine a 4 or 5in shell will ruin any subs day if it puts a hole in the pressure hull. It also takes time to close to the location of the sub. Why wouldn't you fire as you went?

[Aras]

You didn't understood me. In the movie Mamo destroyer tries to shoot at the sub and misses all the rounds, BUT Akakazi Destroyer never tried to shoot at the sub. That’s my point, that’s why I didn’t like the move, that’s why I told "No matter what US wins". Image 3-6 aircraft waiting for the sub and all of them misses (That's what happened in the movie) ???

[Aras]

Here, the scene :

[Sailor Steve]

I understand. Any destroyer closing on a submarine less than a mile away would be shooting, and probably hitting.

Here's another one. The movie opens with Clark Gable's sub getting sunk. In the Bungo Suido, which is the channel from the Pacific to the Inland Sea. There are survivors. Why weren't they picked up by the Japanese and made prisoners of war? Or just shot in the water. Much more importantly, how were they rescued and taken back to America?

The movie is full of holes. The only reason I cut them any slack at all was that it was made during the period following the war, and the wartime feelings were still there. Other than getting to see real subs do their thing, it's not that good.

Oh, and I thought most of the effects were great. The freighter getting torpedoed and exploding was a model, not actual war footage.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Well I haven't seen The Enemy Below so I can't speak about it's special effects. The best action to take regarding a destroyer spotting a surfaced submarine is definitely to head towards it, but not just to ram it. The guns on a destroyer are certainly for more than just show. Against a submarine a 4 or 5in shell will ruin any subs day if it puts a hole in the pressure hull. It also takes time to close to the location of the sub. Why wouldn't you fire as you went?

There were documented instances of Destroyers going in to ram Submarines in WWII with guns blazing. One battle even resulted in the Destroyer becoming lodged in the Submarine (much like in TEB) and the crews of their respective ships fighting it out with their small arms (because the main armaments of the Destroyer cannot depress at such an angle).

I seem to recall in the book the survivors are left to die but are rescued by an American boat that responded to a distress radio call. It's been a while and Ned Beach's Dust on the Sea was the better book (IMHO) but was never made into a film. Obviously the producers opted for the "Once out of the hole, our hero..." dramatic license popular in serial dramas of the time.

Complaints about "realism" or lack thereof in film or TV are always so amusing.

As for ramming, on 10 September 1941 HMCS Moose Jaw, Lt Fred Grubb hit U-501 broadside to broadside in heavy seas and the boat's captain, KK Hugo Forester took the opportunity to jump from his conning tower onto Moose Jaw's deck. A rather interesting method of surrendering.

Moose Jaw's 4" gun had jammed.

Here's a link:

U-501

The book Canadian Naval Chronicles (Fraser McKee and Robert Darlington) goes into more details about this unusual action than the website.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

There were documented instances of Destroyers going in to ram Submarines in WWII with guns blazing. One battle even resulted in the Destroyer becoming lodged in the Submarine (much like in TEB) and the crews of their respective ships fighting it out with their small arms (because the main armaments of the Destroyer cannot depress at such an angle).

USS Borie vs U-405:
http://destroyerhistory.org/flushdec...1503&pid=21504

USS Buckley vs U-66:
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-66BuckleyReport.htm

[Bilge_Rat]

Ramming U-Boats was a standard tactic in WW2. Every escort captain was supposed to do it, if feasible.

U-100 was rammed and sunk.

[ETR3(SS)]

I'm not trying to say destroyers wouldn't ram a submarine, I'm just saying they would fire along the way. And it's a movie made in America, it's not going to draw good reviews and make money if the Americans lose. That's Hollywood.

[Red October1984]

I still like this movie either way...

[Aras]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

I'm not trying to say destroyers wouldn't ram a submarine, I'm just saying they would fire along the way. And it's a movie made in America, it's not going to draw good reviews and make money if the Americans lose. That's Hollywood.

You are right !

[Onkel Neal]

For its time, that was a really well-made sub movie

I think the surface attack in that scene was made at "night". In old Hollywood movies, the night scenes were very brightly lit, equivalent to a cloudy day. When you have Burt Lancaster in your film, you don't shroud his face in shadows!