What are the acceptable limits of the 2nd Amendment?

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by TarJak

In terms of federal laws, where do you think the limits will lie for restrictions on particular weapons/classes of weapon?

There are already limitations on full automatic, certain classes of firearm including RPG's, etc. Where do you think these will land with the proposed changes?

The news today was that VP Biden has a plan to limit the kinds of guns you may purcahse that are the same kind being used in these terrible crimes from Arizona to Colorado to New England area.

He is also recomending limits on clips capicity to be limited to ten rounds.

They say these laws can be passed at the top levels of our country without public approval. I'm no really sure about that, but I do know the president is not running for office, perhaps he really does feel strongly about doing something.

Seems impossible to me ... How do you stop mental illness that constantly tries to figure out to murder someone and get the attention that particular person is really after.

Have you ever really seen somone that has Alzheimer’s disease and dementia?

They will try to untie the knots that bind them all day till they succeed.

Same with these mental ill people if they even know someone with guns they will figure out a way to obtain them and then use them for whatever it takes to gradifiy their senses.

What I want to know is what happens to people that already have these guns and the clips that may or may not become available in the near future?

Surely everyone won't have to march down to their nearest police station and turn them in.

We are talking tens of thousands of clips and semi-automatic guns in private hands.

It is almost impossible to stop what is going on and and no matter what they pass nothing would've stopped that crazy teen from killing his mother to obtain his guns and kill all of those poor innocent children ... not one law that is.

One armed teacher nearby would've saved perhaps half of the casualities, but not all.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by geetrue

The news today was that VP Biden has a plan to limit the kinds of guns you may purcahse that are the same kind being used in these terrible crimes from Arizona to Colorado to New England area.

He is also recomending limits on clips capicity to be limited to ten rounds.

They say these laws can be passed at the top levels of our country without public approval. I'm no really sure about that, but I do know the president is not running for office, perhaps he really does feel strongly about doing something.

Seems impossible to me ... How do you stop mental illness that constantly tries to figure out to murder someone and get the attention that particular person is really after.

Have you ever really seen somone that has Alzheimer’s disease and dementia?

They will try to untie the knots that bind them all day till they succeed.

Same with these mental ill people if they even know someone with guns they will figure out a way to obtain them and then use them for whatever it takes to gradifiy their senses.

What I want to know is what happens to people that already have these guns and the clips that may or may not become available in the near future?

Surely everyone won't have to march down to their nearest police station and turn them in.

We are talking tens of thousands of clips and semi-automatic guns in private hands.

It is almost impossible to stop what is going on and and no matter what they pass nothing would've stopped that crazy teen from killing his mother to obtain his guns and kill all of those poor innocent children ... not one law that is.

One armed teacher nearby would've saved perhaps half of the casualities, but not all.

My guess is that they would(notice i did not use will) wind up grandfathering in already produced magazines just like they did with previous bans.Even that New York ban makes it crime only if you happen to get caught with an illegal magazine so a smart New York gun owner would move to another state if they can not do this then they just keep their high cap magazines out of sight.

It will be nearly impossible to pass any such laws through congress though and even if they did there are more than enough states that would not ratify.That leaves an executive order but those can be vetoed by Congress 2/3 majority.I think in the end what they will wind up with is some sort unilateral requirement on back ground checks right now private sales and in some states sales at guns shows do not require a back ground check.In a way this is good for any gun store because they would be the broker of the back ground check which gives them the chance to sell something else to the person wishing to purchase the firearm and at least the gun store gets a fee for the background check and most likely some will try to get the person to buy some better firearm than the one they are about to buy from the private seller I can see that.

To be honest right now I wish I had about two dozen AR-15s if i did I'd sell them for two grand to all the yahoos just now deciding to buy one because it is trendy.$2,000 is the going rate for a AR15 right now.A buddy said he saw a guy selling used ones for $1500 at a gun show which is what a good one made by Colt or Rock River used to go for new two years ago depending on what you ordered.I have about 50 30 and 20 round STANAGs that I do not have need for that have never been used. I was on a job the other day this guy wanted some so I said I have brand new ones he said name your price I said $30 each for a 20 rounder $50 each for a 30 rounder half jokingly and he said yes and bought 3 30 rounders from me $150.00 dollars for magazines that I paid about $8.00 a pop for when I was in high school.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by geetrue

What I want to know is what happens to people that already have these guns and the clips that may or may not become available in the near future?

Surely everyone won't have to march down to their nearest police station and turn them in.

We are talking tens of thousands of clips and semi-automatic guns in private hands.

You are talking millions of semi-automatic rifles: http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/201...n_america.html

A November 2012 Congressional Research Service report found that, as of 2009, there were approximately 310 million firearms in the United States: “114 million handguns, 110 million rifles, and 86 million shotguns.” However, author William J. Krouse went on to note that “data are not available on the number of ‘assault weapons’ in private possession or available for sale, but one study estimated that 1.5 million assault weapons were privately owned in 1994.

Even if you say only 2% of the 110 million rifles are in the banned categories you are still talking about 2.2 million guns plus all the mags to go with them. I've said elsewhere that I can't see the US being able to afford to run a buy back of these weapons as at below market rate of $1500 per weapon you'd be talking a cost of $3.3bn plus mag costs. If there are more than that then the math gets worse for the Treasury. Nothing in comparison to the deficit mind, but can you see Congress passing another $3bn plus in the current economic climate? Not to mention the bleating that will come from the manufacturers about jobs etc.

Originally Posted by Stealhead

My guess is that they would(notice i did not use will) wind up grandfathering in already produced magazines just like they did with previous bans.Even that New York ban makes it crime only if you happen to get caught with an illegal magazine so a smart New York gun owner would move to another state if they can not do this then they just keep their high cap magazines out of sight.

It will be nearly impossible to pass any such laws through congress though and even if they did there are more than enough states that would not ratify.That leaves an executive order but those can be vetoed by Congress 2/3 majority.I think in the end what they will wind up with is some sort unilateral requirement on back ground checks right now private sales and in some states sales at guns shows do not require a back ground check.

And so the US will go around the same buoy again with the next shooting of children.

So how does the Congress veto look in the current make-up? If it goes along party lines then the executive order would stand would it not? If its a conscience vote then I'd say its up in the air.

[Stealhead]

The US Congress is expert in going around buoys on most every matter I don't see why that would change.Also the general public does not support total bans as I understand universal background checks are most widely supported.

Honestly banning certain firearms is not going to stop anyone from shooting children or anyone for that matter.A person like that will find a way people in China run into schools and stab kids to death.If you made magazine size limited then a person simply carries more magazines. If you ban all guns they'll use a knife or some other weapon or make some type of bomb.

No offense but from what I understand Australia seems to be very much a nanny state they even have restrictions on what can be in video games and entertainment.No thanks I say I'll take the risks of having a little more freedom myself.

[Armistead]

The true number of guns is probably around a billion. Most studies say they're over 200,000 guns per year smuggled into the US, including full autos. Anyone that wants to buy one, doing a little leg work, can easily buy one, inner cities are full of them.

I may have said, but the US public owns more fully autos than the police, about 300,000.

The majority of Americans will never turn in their guns and all this talk has done is increase the buying of all guns 300%.

I don't see anything getting passed, cept maybe 100% background check on legally purchased guns.

Many of the gun states have already made it clear they will ignore gun laws passed by the feds.

[Betonov]

It's a gun culture. Let them have their guns. If I move there and get citizenship I'll buy myself some guns.

I love guns, but I love my countries gun control better. Would never support a free carry here. But even here if I decide to shoot up my village, it would take me a few weeks to get an AK.

The solution is the hardest to implement. Less guns won't solve it. It's identifying the psycho before the bloody deed.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

The US Congress is expert in going around buoys on most every matter I don't see why that would change.Also the general public does not support total bans as I understand universal background checks are most widely supported.

I certainly agree with that.

Honestly banning certain firearms is not going to stop anyone from shooting children or anyone for that matter.A person like that will find a way people in China run into schools and stab kids to death.If you made magazine size limited then a person simply carries more magazines. If you ban all guns they'll use a knife or some other weapon or make some type of bomb.

Given the lack of evidence supporting your claim I have to disagree. In fact the evidence here in Australia is that since the restrictions on military style semi-auto's (1997) there have been ZERO mass shootings in Australia. Did it remove all violent crime here? No and there are still deaths caused by gunshot wounds all to regularly. However nothing like Port Arthur, Newman, Aurora, Comumbine etc. has happened since. Did it reduce the risk? Do the math.

You can still obtain semi-automatic rifles here. They are even manufactured here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...41524429,d.aGc

Its just that much harder and the restrictions make it harder for nutters to get hold of them.

No offense

The standard precursor to a very offensive statement.

but from what I understand Australia seems to be very much a nanny state they even have restrictions on what can be in video games and entertainment.

Do your research before you make ludicrous statements. http://civilliberty.about.com/od/fre...Censorship.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_..._rating_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austral...fication_Board

No thanks I say I'll take the risks of having a little more freedom myself.

I'd rather live in a place where I do not feel the need to carry a gun to protect myself and my family. Oh wait... I do.

Does our government annoy me. Yes. Do they do stupid things. Yes. Are there restrictions on my life I don't like. Yes. Having visited the US several times I find the intrusion of Homeland security much more invasive and "nanny state" than anything I've seen out here.

[Stealhead]

@Tarjak You got me there I had heard the "nanny state" complaints from some Aussies on holiday while back.Not sure where I heard the part about the control over media.I never really went into in depth research on the topic honestly.

I am unsure what makes you think that people feel unsafe without a firearm in the US.This does not seem to be the view held by every American or even a majority.I easily know personally more people that dislike firearms or do not feel the need to own one.

In Australia the strict regulation may have had an effect thing is how many murders did it really prevent?Did the violent crime rate go down and was it because of simply the firearms restrictions? The way I see it many things can have an effect on crime.

@Armistead There is no way that there are 1 billion firearms in the US not modern functional ones that is an over estimation by a substantial amount. Personally I feel that the number of illegal firearms in the US is greatly exaggerated by parties that wish to claim that firearms laws only punish "good guys".

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

@Tarjak You got me there I had heard the "nanny state" complaints from some Aussies on holiday while back.Not sure where I heard the part about the control over media.I never really went into in depth research on the topic honestly.

I am unsure what makes you think that people feel unsafe without a firearm in the US.This does not seem to be the view held by every American or even a majority.I easily know personally more people that dislike firearms or do not feel the need to own one.

Mainly some of the comments from people I've met both here and in the US. Quite a lot of comments here on Subsim also. I know no-one here (yes there will be some I don't know), who owns a weapon for home defence. I know many people who are gun owners, but all only have them for hunting or recreational (target), shooting.

In Australia the strict regulation may have had an effect thing is how many murders did it really prevent?Did the violent crime rate go down and was it because of simply the firearms restrictions? The way I see it many things can have an effect on crime.

I agree there are many things which can have an effect on crime, however this legislation, (as the proposed US legislation is), was aimed at a particular type of crime. So far since introduction here, there has not been a repeat of that type of crime. Shootings still happen and violent crime still happens and criminals still have illegal guns, but nutters don't go on rampages in schools or public places.