The problem is that we have stupid guns in the United States

[August]

Originally Posted by tater

Almost all mass shootings in recent decades have happened in areas where guns are expressly forbidden, even in the hands of employees, like schools, most theaters, etc. If a teacher wanted a CCW, it would not be allowed to take the weapon to school, for example. Of course if a teacher was already a homicidal nut, he/she would just bring the gun (or knife, etc) anyway. Allowing them to be armed would result in zero increase in school attacks, and might, just might, lower a death toll. That said I don't agree with guards in schools, or metal detectors, etc. It's wasteful for something so rare (yes, it's rare). Letting teachers, etc arm themselves voluntarily seems perfectly reasonable to me. Bottom line is you cannot prevent a crazy from arming themselves with some kind of weapon, and if you are a 100 lb teacher in a room of 6 year olds and a nut comes in, you need a tool, and the only tool that will do is a firearm.

The cultural issue is NOT the culture of the insane that do these mass shootings. That is a mental health problem and has exactly nothing to do with culture.

The current (mid 2000s are the best the DOJ has) rate for victims by race have the rate for blacks at 6X that for whites (they are 7X more likely to murder with guns, whites, OTOH, commit around 80% of the murders by poison). The majority of killers using guns are black. A majority, which is a lot considering they are ~12% of the population (and most are mean, dropping them to just 6% of the population committing 50.9% of gun murders).

The "white" rate of homicide is around 3 per 100,000. This is by all attackers, and includes many cultures within the US that are nominally labeled "white" by the US government. Not really far from a few places in Europe like Liechtenstein (2.8:100,000), or Luxembourg (2.5). Are their high (for europe) rates because of their culture, or perhaps an invasive culture?

While these terrible mass shootings get a lot of press, but more kids are killed in the inner cities almost daily. In 2012, something like 60 children were murdered, the vast majority black kids by other blacks.

What perhaps the non-gun people out there (at SS, and the world at large) don't "get," is that the vast, overwhelming majority of us with guns can state with certainty that we would NEVER use them criminally. As a result, the idea of armed people doesn't scare us. Guns don't make people violent. I've had guns for decades, and been VERY angry on numerous occasions, and it never even crossed my mind that a gun was a useful tool for my anger. This is true of 90-something % of gun owners, I'd wager. The ones it is not true of... already do crimes with guns, or think about it.

Well said.

[Platapus]

Criminals, by their very nature, do not mind violating laws.

A criminal bent on committing a felony is not going to worry about violating a misdemeanor.

Criminals, by their very nature, do not mind violating laws.

yes they would have no qualms in buying a gun from a source that doesn't require a backround check even though they are not supposed to buy guns and wouldn't pass a simple check.

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Criminals, by their very nature, do not mind violating laws.

A criminal bent on committing a felony is not going to worry about violating a misdemeanor.

Exactly

[Platapus]

If you outlaw guns, you may make outlaws out of what are normally law abiding citizens.

Originally Posted by August

Exactly

That is an anti gun control arguement by dummies

Originally Posted by Platapus

If you outlaw guns, you may make outlaws out of what are normally law abiding citizens.

If you outlaw opium you may make outlaws of what are normally law abiding citizens.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

If you outlaw opium you may make outlaws of what are normally law abiding citizens.

That's true. Your point?

Your point?

Does the application of the arguement make sense.
Just because something is true it doesn't neccesarily mean that it is a valid arguement for or against the issue.

Try another one.
Banning creosote may make outlaws out of people who are normally law abiding citizens.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by August

Exactly

Is it me, or those who committed mass murders in schools weren't gang members

[August]

Originally Posted by Méo

Is it me, or those who committed mass murders in schools weren't gang members

Where do you see the words Gang Member in that cartoon?

[Méo]

Originally Posted by August

Where do you see the words Gang Member in that cartoon?

He looks a lot like it

Or simply replace ''gang member'' by ''criminal''

Don't know much about this guy http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...friendless-boy

But he didn't seem like a professional criminal before the tragedy.

Edit: BTW, the same goes for the colorado gunman.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Just because something is true it doesn't neccesarily mean that it is a valid arguement for or against the issue.

True, but it doesn't mean that it isn't a valid argument either. If the banning has the primary effect of making formerly law-abiding citizens into criminals then the law-abiding citizens have cause to object.

This is also true of creosote.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Méo

Or simply replace ''gang member'' by ''criminal''

The point of the cartoon was that if you disarm the law-abiding citizen, the criminal still has his gun and the citizen is now an easy target.

You're right, mass murderers aren't usually criminals in the common sense of the word. The cartoon wasn't aimed at that. The common criminal is not usually looking to kill people, but he will hurt them, or kill them, if he feels safe doing so.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The point of the cartoon was that if you disarm the law-abiding citizen

IMO, restraint (or limitations) would be a better word here than disarm.

I don't see why a law-abiding citizen would be disarmed, he's just gonna have some limitations (seriously, it's bit late now, but I think I'm gonna call my friend tomorrow he's gonna tell me every weapons he has, I've seen some, and he's far from being disarmed)