[WIP] Historical Guns Specs

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

Seems like a C/30 is initially broken flak-gun..

After all, I think our first test will be about the trav / elev tolerance factors. I wan to see if they fix this damn gun

Originally Posted by Trevally.

I would suggest that you test your missions in the campaign as this will give you full control over what you are testing.

Originally Posted by volodya61

It's hard to me.. I'm still not able to make a single mission.. too lazy to figure out how ME2 work..

but I promise one day I will put myself at it. How much do you charge for private classes, Trevally?

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

After all, I think our first test will be about the trav / elev tolerance factors. I wan to see if they fix this damn gun

If I set trav/elev tolerance values to 1, will this reduce error? What do you think?

Originally Posted by gap

How much do you charge for private classes, Trevally?

really Private classes

[Trevally.]

I can do it for you - send me your mission and let me know what date you want it to take place

[Trevally.]

Don't mind Helga - she comes in to clean the board for me.

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

If I set trav/elev tolerance values to 1, will this reduce error? What do you think?

I have just set it to 0 (you know:I like to overdo), and I think I've discovered something new: the gun was following its target, but held fire, as if it was looking for a perfect aim before firing.

as their name is suggesting, the two tolerance factors are probably the angular deviation from the ideal trajectory to the target, at which the AI will think that its aim is good enough to start firing... I will carry one some more testing after dinner

Originally Posted by Trevally.

I can do it for you - send me your mission and let me know what date you want it to take place

Whatever date. I doesn't matter for me. What I would like, is having a mission for each Flak gun available as boat upgrade, and our U-boat being equipped with just one of them in each mission...

Originally Posted by Trevally.

Don't mind Helga - she comes in to clean the board for me.

a fellow subsim member, I suppose

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

I think I've discovered something new: the gun was following its target, but held fire, as if it was looking for a perfect aim before firing.

just tested values 0 and 1 for both parameters (trav & elev)

0 - hold fire, but follow target
1 - no hits, all shots below the target, as in previous tests

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

just tested values 0 and 1 for both parameters (trav & elev)

0 - hold fire, but follow target
1 - no hits, all shots below the target, as in previous tests

Exactly the same here...

wait, I want to see what the restr_dist property (under obj_Turret => Debug) does. Setting show_restr to 'Yes' should display in game what this setting is for... or at least I hope so...

[volodya61]

I'm currently translating into Russian the files for Equipment Upgrade Fix and came across the text of the special abilities.. how the special abilities may affect to AA-guns accuracy?

All my tests in campaign were done using the crew with the gunner's special abilities..

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

I'm currently translating into Russian the files for Equipment Upgrade Fix and came across the text of the special abilities.. how the special abilities may affect to AA-guns accuracy?

All my tests in campaign were done using the crew with the gunner's special abilities..

I ignore it, but probably Rongel can give us some detail

P.S: I've found this old post from a thread in SHIII Mods Workshop:

Originally Posted by Cdre Gibs

Finally some1 else has found the DEACCURACY Tweak I have been useing on ALL Guns

This is the 1 that I have been using for ages to DEACCURTISE the DG with. Ok to explain it better.

The Traverse and Elavaion Tolarance is used to gyro stabilise the Gun. This is done by giving the gun a SET Degree of MOVEMENT that you determine BEFORE the movement of the subs hull is imposed on the Gun. So therefor IF you have given the tolarance to the guns of say 10° this means that the gun has 10° of inderpendent movement BEFORE the subs movement effects the gun. Hence to DEACCURTISE the gun you REDUCE the movement. On the DG I have been using 0.75° for both Elevation and Traverse, for all other Flack Guns I have been using 0.5°. Now what happens is that the DG can only track the target for 0.75° of inderpendent movment before the subs heaving is imposed on the gun, BUT this is the good part, this will SLOW down the Fire rate as the AI will NOT fire the Gun untill its ON target. It also means that they have more accurate MISS shots to btw what I mean by that is that you will get over an unders as before but now closer to the taget. With this imposed I have redone all weps and shells to reflect true values on Range, Damage and refire rates. This is the reason I always said that Beery was wrong, You CAN fix the DG!

Now go at it an enjoy

PS: Ohh btw this will also effect the player when he uses the gun's, but for best results let the AI man the guns an shoot only, after all Captains didn't go running around a sub maning every thing them selves. You have a crew, let them do their job and you do yours.

In a nutshell, if what this guy is saying proves true, the effect of the two tolerance factors is just the opposite of what we supposed so far!

I think tomorrow another hard testing session is waiting for us

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

In a nutshell, if what this guy is saying proves true, the effect of the two tolerance factors is just the opposite of what we supposed so far!

I think tomorrow another hard testing session is waiting for us

To be honest, I have little understood from this post..
I correctly understand that now we should increase the values rather than decrease them?

[flostt]

Originally Posted by Trevally.

Don't mind Helga - she comes in to clean the board for me.

[V13dweller]

Want me to create the mission for you? just tell me what to do, and ill see if I can do it.
And a bit of info relating to the Auxiliary cruisers guns, yes, they do get them based on the year.

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

To be honest, I have little understood from this post..
I correctly understand that now we should increase the values rather than decrease them?

Yes, it is probably written in a worst english than mine.
What I've understood is that the two tolerance settings are sort of maximum gyroscopic stabilization angles, and that they affect the guns' aim for both AI and human player. If that was true, it would imply that:

1. the higher their value, the steadier the gun, the more accurate its aim;

2. the higher the wind speed, the bigger more noticeable their effect

3. by playing with train/elevation tolerance and speed settings, we can destabilize deck and flak guns without fiddling with trickier parameters

Originally Posted by V13dweller

Want me to create the mission for you? just tell me what to do, and ill see if I can do it.
And a bit of info relating to the Auxiliary cruisers guns, yes, they do get them based on the year.

Thank you for your offer, V13dweller

Right now I would be happy enough if I could test the improved C/30 and the twin C/38 flak guns in custom mission. I want to see if they are affected by the same systematic error as the "regular" C/30.

I don't know if Volodya has other requests, though

[Rongel]

Originally Posted by gap

I ignore it, but probably Rongel can give us some detail

Stock special abilities influence gunner in this way:

There are two passive abilities, boost guns and reduce reload time.

Boost guns is like this: AbilityType=GunsAccuracy, GunsDamage, GunsRange, ShellDrag, ShellSpeed ;increase gun accuracy, damage and range (in percents)
AbilityValue= 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30

So when maxed out, it gives +30 % to all aspects of gunning (if all of them work or not is a mystery to me).

Stock Reduce reload time drops the time to -50 % when at max. My special abilities mod uses -20 % value. I guess these affect both the deck gun and the AA gun.

Hope this helps!

[gap]

Originally Posted by Rongel

Stock special abilities influence gunner in this way:

There are two passive abilities, boost guns and reduce reload time.

Boost guns is like this: AbilityType=GunsAccuracy, GunsDamage, GunsRange, ShellDrag, ShellSpeed ;increase gun accuracy, damage and range (in percents)
AbilityValue= 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30

So when maxed out, it gives +30 % to all aspects of gunning (if all of them work or not is a mystery to me).

Stock Reduce reload time drops the time to -50 % when at max. My special abilities mod uses -20 % value. I guess these affect both the deck gun and the AA gun.

Hope this helps!

Thank you Rongel, it helps a lot indeed!

If I didn't misunderstood your explications, they would entail that gun specific parameters (in their respective sim files), should be set for the lowest possible performance.
In any case, we will have an hard time finetuning guns specs and passive ability settings, but it is something we have to deal with, I think.

By the way: where are these settings found?
Do you happen to know if the crew veterancy settings in custom mission do have the same effect as passive abilities in campaign? I am induced to think so, since there are 5 ability levels in campaign and 5 veterancy levels in mission...


P.S: have you seen what I said about gun's stabilization in my previous post? I know you have fiddled a lot in an attempt to destabilize player's guns....