Fiscal Cliff..

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The stock market is currently going ballistic. Let see if the gains have staying power for the entire day.

No problem there but the real question is how will the markets react to between now and two months time when the real negotiations are taking place.

If I were in a position to I'd sell before the weekend of next tbh.

[August]

Now we find out the true reason for all the brinkmanship. The Fiscal Cliff bill is loaded with pork spending and they didn't want to give anyone time to find out before they had to vote on it.

Now campaign promises to the contrary the middle class still gets a tax increase in the form of a 2% hike in social security taxes but the bill ensures that Hollywood gets to knock off $430 Billion a year from their taxes just for making their films in the US, and a bunch of other costly stuff that we can't afford and shouldn't have to.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...gus-nascar-rum

They have learned nothing.

[geetrue]

If you can't change the President ... you can't change Washington

This is a great explanation of what happened ...
if you care to read it you will see why we (the USA) have been served up a con job: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,573514.column

The 'fiscal cliff' con game

By Michael Hiltzik
January 2, 2013


Whatever the ultimate shape of the "fiscal cliff" solution that has preoccupied all Washington, and a fair swath of the rest of country, in the final days of 2012 and into the new year, Americans of all walks of life should be asking themselves this question: How do we like being conned?

The deal, passed by the Senate on New Year's morning, was made final late Tuesday when the House of Representatives signed on. Its essential elements include expiration of the President George W. Bush-era income and capital gains tax cuts on couples' incomes over $450,000, and a modest increase in the estate tax.

Unemployment benefits and tax credits for lower-income families will be extended. The payroll tax holiday that replaced a low- and middle-income tax credit in 2009 will end, but the tax credit won't return.

Many other items, including the fate of automatic spending cuts mandated by the 2011 debt-ceiling deal, are being put off for weeks or months. Another debt-ceiling fight looms on the near horizon.

Still not convinced? Read the LA Times article.

Almost everything mentioned above involves a con game of one sort or another, because almost none of it is what it seems on the surface.

[Platapus]

It is depressing. I don't really see a solution. The founding dudes did not envision a problem with allowing congress to make the rules for congress and to allow congress to monitor congress.

If that ain't conflict of interest, I don't know what is.

The only hope for forcing changes in congress would be a national convention and that would take 2/3rds of the state legislators to request it. Maybe things will get so bad that 34 state legislators could agree on something and force a national convention. But I doubt it.

We are in a bad situation and congress does not seem to care.

I have a feeling that in the next few years, many incumbents will be surprised.

I used to think "when in doubt, vote em out" But there really is not a lot of doubt any more.

Most depressing.

but the bill ensures that Hollywood gets to knock off $430 Billion a year from their taxes just for making their films in the US, and a bunch of other costly stuff that we can't afford and shouldn't have to.

Hey thats not fair, we give them tax breaks so they make their films over here instead of in the US
Oh well maybe we can get the French to outsource their film industry instead by offering them bigger breaks to film here.

I wonder if an independant Texas could take the US film business by offering tax breaks?

I used to think "when in doubt, vote em out" But there really is not a lot of doubt any more.

Do you think the next bunch you voted in would be any different from the current bunch?

[AVGWarhawk]

Did anyone really expect a clean concise bill?

Jimbuna

No problem there but the real question is how will the markets react to between now and two months time when the real negotiations are taking place.

The negotiations are done. The next question is spending cuts. There may not be any negotiations at all. They could not agree and vote on a budget in 4 years. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[geetrue]

I heard it was the highest stock market gains of any new year ever recorded both before and after the new year

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by geetrue

I heard it was the highest stock market gains of any new year ever recorded both before and after the new year

Cool, hopefully gold will drop a bit so I can get a better deal.

[magic452]

You're a little late for gold. If you're interested in bullion I'd look at 5 oz silver coins. If gold the British Sovereign. Nothing larger then these two. If you don't know why I would suggest you do some research on tax issues. Namely Income reporting, long term capital gains, gift tax and inheritance tax.

All my gold is in 5 oz. bullion bars and I sure wish it wasn't. If I can nurse it to $1,800 an oz I'll correct that problem.

Magic

Did anyone really expect a clean concise bill?

Is there ever such a thing?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Is there ever such a thing?

Yes, my electric, water and cable bill are concise.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by geetrue

I heard it was the highest stock market gains of any new year ever recorded both before and after the new year

The question is will the trend continue.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The question is will the trend continue.

Wrong question. Either way, new debts will be made and added to the already stellar amount of explicit debts, not even mentioning implicit debts, which are many times as worse.

So the only question is how long can the trend continue anymore? How long when you count your total real debts in dozens of trillions? Multiple factors of your GNP?

You're already done. You just stick your head into the sand in denial. And all others do that, too. For due to our fantastic idea to turn all money-related topics into a global monoculture, the fall of one giant like USA will pull others down with him as well. Even more when the others are not really that well-situated with their financial status, too.

They will try this "trend" you asked about as long as possible, however. Since there is no alternative that does not border immediate suicide. It's all far beyond PNR. The choice is immediate destruction, or delayed destruction.

A "solution" I do not see anymore, and cannot imagine anymore. It has all detoriated all too far. Dozens of trillions in American debts, trillions and trillions for other industrial heavyweights as well - c'mon. Solution...? What kind of stuff is somebody on if he still dreams of a "solution"...? Collapse, cleansing, rebuilding from scratch, and very differently (hopefully) - that's what it will be in the best scenario. In the worst, it will just be collapse, and then nothing for a long time to come.

I would even say, seen from that perspective, that collapse is not just inevitable, but even highly desirable. Like you jump off a sinking ship and try to win distance before it catches you in the maelstrom when going down, and pulling you down allong with it.

When the roof starts to come down, you'd better be somewhere else.

em2nought, you are definitely too late for gold.

BTW, possessing gold does not make you invulnerable. Both the US and Germany have seen times when the state prohibited the possession of gold, and the police raided private homes to confiscate gold reserves of private people. When politicians think the only way to save their skin is to expropriate you and force you to give all you have for restarting the currency that they have messed up before, they have done that before - and they will do it again. - Same is true for land property and house property. We have been there, we are going there again in Germany, no doubt.

History knows times and places where even the possession of silver was prohibited due to economic and financial crisis.

When the sh!t starts hitting the fan, there is no escape, for nobody.

[AVGWarhawk]

Skybird:

Wrong question.

Only in your world.

Skybird:

When the sh!t starts hitting the fan, there is no escape, for nobody.

I guess I should start digging the hole and stockpiling canned beans? Perhaps just blow it all and enjoy the time I have left before the inevitable collapse of society globally.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Oberon

When did you get elected to Congress?!

Lol, I wish. You cannot imagine what that would look like

I wish they would stop calling Social Security an "entitlement" program. I'm entitled to what I paid for over 35 years?