Should assault rifles be banned in the US?

August · 12-22-12, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

And something a little more modern from elsewhere:

You'll notice that nowhere in that paragraph does it say that firearms can't be owned and possessed by sane and law abiding citizens.

TarJak · 12-22-12, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

A good article. I liked the story of Huey Newton and the police. It's what America is about.

I do have to disagree here. The article cites the denial of slaves as a form of gun control. That's a very limited viewpoint. They were slaves, and as such were denied all human rights. The ownership of weapons for defense was still considered a right for all citizens. Slaves weren't considered citizens, as was shown by the Supreme Court's decision in the Dred Scott case. Dred Scott petitioned the court for his freedom, since his late owner had lived in several states where slavery was outlawed. Rather than decide the case on its own merits the court said that Scott had no right to petition the court at all, since as a slave he wasn't a citizen.

So the Founders didn't have a gun-control law denying a certain segment of the population what they considered a basic right. They denied a certain segment of the population access to all basic human rights, on the principle that they weren't citizens. Kind of like the whole Guantanamo thing. Gun ownership was indeed considered a right that citizens could enjoy.

As for a law requiring all male citizens of militia age to own a gun? You can argue that that constitues gun control, but I doubt you'll get much joy from the Brady group.

The points I got from this were that there were controls which excluded some segments of the community (including some with human rights), and that regular compulsory musters and inspections constitute higher levels of control than exist now. In particular the requirement to own and register a weapon for service in the militia AND muster for regular inspections gives credence to the intent of the 2nd amendment right of gun ownership being linked very strongly to militia membership.

Granted the slaves had no rights at all, but that does not invalidate the rest of the commentary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

You'll notice that nowhere in that paragraph does it say that firearms can't be owned and possessed by sane and law abiding citizens.

Noted. But that's not the point.

Sailor Steve · 12-22-12, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

The points I got from this were that there were controls which excluded some segments of the community (including some with human rights), and that regular compulsory musters and inspections constitute higher levels of control than exist now. In particular the requirement to own and register a weapon for service in the militia AND muster for regular inspections gives credence to the intent of the 2nd amendment right of gun ownership being linked very strongly to militia membership.

Granted the slaves had no rights at all, but that does not invalidate the rest of the commentary.

And my point was that the article tries to equate the deprivation of all rights to a certain segment of the population with firearms regulation, and the two have nothing to do with each other. My second point was that a law requiring all male members of a certain age to own a firearm also is not an attempt at reglulating said arms. There is, however, something to be said for the requirement to meet and drill with those firearms.

August · 12-22-12, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

There is, however, something to be said for the requirement to meet and drill with those firearms.

I'd love it if the Federal or state government fulfilled their obligation of training and equipping the militia but they choose not to.

yubba · 12-22-12, 08:50 PM

Heard something funny in the last day or so that China was upset that there was so many weapons in American households, I say,, now that's funny..

and by the looks of it today as the doorman for a day for the gunshop across the way there are more...

TarJak · 12-22-12, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I'd love it if the Federal or state government fulfilled their obligation of training and equipping the militia but they choose not to.

Cough* National Guard *cough. http://www.ng.mil/About/default.aspx

August · 12-23-12, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

Cough* National Guard *cough. http://www.ng.mil/About/default.aspx

I don't care what they call themselves, they're a standing federal army TarJak. Haven't you been paying attention on the difference between the organized and unorganized Militia?

TarJak · 12-23-12, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I don't care what they call themselves, they're a standing federal army TarJak. Haven't you been paying attention on the difference between the organized and unorganized Militia?

Yes I have, however you were not clear in your post which one you were talking about. I merely pointed out that the organized militia IS funded by both Federal and States.

soopaman2 · 12-23-12, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I'd love it if the Federal or state government fulfilled their obligation of training and equipping the militia but they choose not to.

National Guard?

State run for the most part.

I understand your point, but independant Paramilitary groups will never be sanctioned in modern America. We are a slight step behind China or Russia in oppressiveness, just look at what we lost in the Patriot act.

I still have faith in us though, I still have faith in the people.

August · 12-23-12, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2

National Guard?

State run for the most part.

I understand your point, but independant Paramilitary groups will never be sanctioned in modern America. We are a slight step behind China or Russia in oppressiveness, just look at what we lost in the Patriot act.

I agree and I see the upcoming gun ban bills as just another piece to that puzzle. You know however it's worded it will not have an effect on the propensity for their use in crime or violent crime but it will definitely end up giving government more power.

.

Quote:

I still have faith in us though, I still have faith in the people.

Me too. The anti gun forces and their supporters will continue with their attempts to ban guns just like they had been ramping up for all year but I still hope that more sensible heads will eventually prevail and if something does get passed it will be watered down.

The Democrats don't want to loose Congress and if they identify themselves too closely with their anti-gun element they are risking a lot in 2014.

CCIP · 12-23-12, 01:42 PM

This "google" you speak of also points to a mass of contrary research, some even suggesting that video games, among other things, have been linked to reductions in violence in the real world.

Also....

nikimcbee · 12-23-12, 01:43 PM

Quote:

I then got on the USS Barack Obama

There's always this one:

View Poll Results: Should assault rifles be banned in the US?
Yes, all I need is a handgun	23	45.10%
No, burglars need to be shot 79 times	28	54.90%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

12-23-12, 01:42 PM	#11
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	This "google" you speak of also points to a mass of contrary research, some even suggesting that video games, among other things, have been linked to reductions in violence in the real world. Also.... __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

12-22-12, 08:50 PM	#5
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	Heard something funny in the last day or so that China was upset that there was so many weapons in American households, I say,, now that's funny.. and by the looks of it today as the doorman for a day for the gunshop across the way there are more...