Lines Blur as Texas Gives Industries a Bonanza

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

who may become successful "1%er"s at some point.

[Hottentot]

The more I read your posts, Mookie, the more I'm thinking you should move to Finland. You'd feel right at home. Well, except for the weather, but that's an acquired taste. And the language that you won't learn in your lifetime, but after a few rounds that's no obstacle for communication.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I don't disagree. Many parents these days are quick to blame the schools for issues that they should be addressing as parents. But I think there's a problem when you have people crowing about Texas' job situation and how cushy the business climate is when schools are overcrowded and facing crumbling facilities due to funding cuts. I really do thing we're mortgaging our future when we do this. If Texas wants to continue to be a national leader in technology and industry, we need a school system that turns out students that are ready to make that happen. Higher educated people contribute more in taxes, they use fewer government services and contribute more to the quality of life in an area.

And I know the argument is going to be that teachers and administrators are overpaid, but I just don't see how underfunding education by $5.5 billion can all be pinned on administrators making too much money. Yes, you can find examples of where that's the case, but to say that it's the entire problem is due to that is ignoring all of the other issues that contribute to the problem.

Well said, man. I'm all for Texas being a business friendly state, being business friendly is a common sense reality and part of Texas tradition. But yes, like you said, education should not be underfunded. I do not see any crumbling facilities in the schools I am in, or my kids, and there are so many new schools in Pearland, Manvel, Pasadena, etc that I am guessing a lot of the education funding is going into construction. Where are the shortfalls? I'm certainly not claiming there are none, probably they exist in teacher/student ratios. I really don't know, so I won't address that.

I admit my previous post was an oversimplification, not all kids who under perform in school end up locked into low wage careers. But it does concern me greatly how kids and their parents approach education (yeah, I know: no kids wants to go to school, it's been that way for 100 years--it's the parents and teachers' role to get them there and teach 'em...it's just a lot more difficult to get that done now). Classroom management is huge, and from what I've seen, teachers and schools are very limited in dealing with disruptive students. Maybe I will learn more and become better at this, I am trying.

Also, I do not disagree with your statistics, Mookie, but they really don't tell the whole story. First, teen age pregnancies--what role does the govt have in this? A woman has the right to do as she will with her body And we cannot legislate morality or common sense.

So, Texas ranks last in the nation for adults with a high school degree? Wow, that's sad (definitely not being sarcastic here, that really is bad). But on the other hand:

Texas Outranks Most States on Graduation Rates
According to a new report by the U.S. Department of Education, Texas tied for the third highest high school graduation rate in the country for all students and ranks number one in graduation rates for Asian and white students. Texas tied with Montana for number one in African American graduation rates. Texas ranked number two on Hispanic graduation rates, behind Maine.

Not too shabby! Maybe Texas is making progress. But, ranking one state against the other states, what does that say? Maybe all the states are kicking butt and getting kids educated, but some are going to be doing it better than others. and even if one state improves its ranking, it pushes other states down in their ranking. Net-net, what's the difference? Heck, I just want to see all the states improve.

Edit: also, what does it really say? "Texas tied for the third highest high school graduation rate in the country for all students".. okay, so they are graduating? Are they educated? Or just pushed out the door? I hope the former.

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

In fairness, that 'overpaid' argument usually stems from people who have never stepped foot in a classroom in the capacity of educator. Once they see what the job is really like, they usually change their tune.

That's for sure! A friend and I were talking a few days ago, we both agree that teaching would be a wonderful, enriching job, if not for the classroom management problems. You like helping others, you like spreading the value of knowledge and education, you want to inspire and support young people... and you spend about half your time addressing baggy pants, listening to music, phones, insolence, missing assignments, completed assignments that show no effort at all. It's heartbreaking.

Originally Posted by privateer

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

To a degree, em2nought is right. The school where I teach, 85% of the kids are on free breakfast and lunch. But each and everyone has a smartphone.

I doubt we agree about how to fix the education problem I hear a lot about teachers and tests, but from what I've seen first-hand, it needs to start with the parents.

Em2 is right to much of the entire degree. Priorities for individuals differ from person to person. Most chose anything but health insurance. Yes, these kids, along with mom and dad, have smart phones, cable, every console gaming system they can get their hands on. I have a few family members that fit this very descriptions. And yes, schooling starts at home.

[AVGWarhawk]

Mookie:

As my mechanic would say, "Well that's yer problem right there." Willfully ignoring systemic issues because it's more convenient to believe in the welfare queen narrative is being willfully blind. You are correct in saying that there will always be people who make poor choices or end up with poor circumstances and you will always have teen pregnancy, wealth inequality, poverty and dropout problems. But the question you need to ask yourself is why does Texas speficially have more of a problem with those things than nearly every other state? Are you saying we have more people making poor decisions or running into bad luck? We just happen to have ended up with a higher rate of bad apples? If you were in the apple business, wouldn't you start wondering why so many of those apples in your shipment of apples are bad?

What happened to luck? Are their more people making bad decision in TX than other states? I don't know. What is the population of TX? I would say TX has RI beat. Statistically then there are more people to make bad decisions?

[AVGWarhawk]

Mookie:

And I know the argument is going to be that teachers and administrators are overpaid, but I just don't see how underfunding education by $5.5 billion can all be pinned on administrators making too much money. Yes, you can find examples of where that's the case, but to say that it's the entire problem is due to that is ignoring all of the other issues that contribute to the problem.

I can not say I have heard the argument that teachers are overpaid. By and large they are very underpaid IMO. Under funding normally occurs here in MD. However, they attempt to throw the answer at the votes by stating these new casinos just voted in will generate money for schools. It is bunk. They gov said this with the first casinos voted into existence. The schools have not seen a dime. School funding is just a easy cash grab no matter the state.

[nikimcbee]

School funding is just a easy cash grab no matter the state.

Post of the year.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Also, I do not disagree with your statistics, Mookie, but they really don't tell the whole story. First, teen age pregnancies--what role does the govt have in this? A woman has the right to do as she will with her body And we cannot legislate morality or common sense.

It's a symptom of the problem. Poorer and lower educated people have more babies and have them younger than higher educated and richer people.

So, Texas ranks last in the nation for adults with a high school degree? Wow, that's sad (definitely not being sarcastic here, that really is bad). But on the other hand:

I was going off of this article, which I will grant you was from 2010, so things may have changed. http://www.texastribune.org/texas-ed...hool-diplomas/

And it also mentions that a lot of people without those degrees are immigrants to the state (from other U.S. states and Mexico) so it may not be as much of an indicator of the quality of the Texas education system. But I was just reading an article the other day that says the OECD just completed a study that found that American children are now more likely to achieve the same or a lower level of schooling than their parents. Only one in five will achieve a higher educational level than their parents. The U.S. is the only major developed economy in the world where this is the case. So when you take those two facts together, it's a worrying trend for Texas.

Here it is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20154358

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

And it also mentions that a lot of people without those degrees are immigrants to the state (from other U.S. states and Mexico) so it may not be as much of an indicator of the quality of the Texas education system. But I was just reading an article the other day that says the OECD just completed a study that found that American children are now more likely to achieve the same or a lower level of schooling than their parents. Only one in five will achieve a higher educational level than their parents. The U.S. is the only major developed economy in the world where this is the case. So when you take those two facts together, it's a worrying trend for Texas.

It is because we, as a nation, do not value education as they do in Europe (particularly Scandinavia) and the Asian nations of Pacific Rim. Our politicians and community 'interest groups' have politicized schools, labeling them as indocrtrination centers and creating enough distrust that problems are bound to occur. And when they do, they sit back and tell you "see, I told you so!". Parents further encourage their children in the belief that they are not answerable for their effort and behavior, and when the children are problematic in the classroom, the teacher is blamed for not being an effective educator and classroom manager. All of this is reinforced by the media which works very hard to promote the idea of the shiftless, lazy teacher sitting back making $80,000 per year and being answerable to no one. And when the result of all this subterfuge and meddling is a system that fails the student, they take it as evidence that they were right after all, despite the fact that the failure was the deliberate product of their own engineering.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

It is because we, as a nation, do not value education as they do in Europe (particularly Scandinavia) and the Asian nations of Pacific Rim. Our politicians and community 'interest groups' have politicized schools, labeling them as indocrtrination centers and creating enough distrust that problems are bound to occur. And when they do, they sit back and tell you "see, I told you so!". Parents further encourage their children in the belief that they are not answerable for their effort and behavior, and when the children are problematic in the classroom, the teacher is blamed for not being an effective educator and classroom manager. All of this is reinforced by the media which works very hard to promote the idea of the shiftless, lazy teacher sitting back making $80,000 per year and being answerable to no one. And when the result of all this subterfuge and meddling is a system that fails the student, they take it as evidence that they were right after all, despite the fact that the failure was the deliberate product of their own engineering.

There also seems to be, in some segments of society, a distrust and dismissal of science and education in favor of "homespun common sense." Intellectuals are ridiculed and people like Sarah Palin are put on a pedestal. "Elitist" is used as a smear.

Well, I want the intellectually elite in charge of things. I want the smart people running the show.

[Takeda Shingen]

Well, in fairness, the left does it too with the 'so-and-so has two daddies/mommies' and the like. Those are things that are not done in Asian and European nations, as they do not try to champion social causes in the classroom. In that respect, the Left is also hostile to education, but just not nearly to the degree that the Right is.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Hottentot

The more I read your posts, Mookie, the more I'm thinking you should move to Finland. You'd feel right at home. Well, except for the weather, but that's an acquired taste. And the language that you won't learn in your lifetime, but after a few rounds that's no obstacle for communication.

Hah, I tend to agree.

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Yep.


Where I tread? "1%er" has a different meaning.
I'm not sure how those "1%ers" would view rich people being assigned that title?


Probably do some arse kicking at the very lest!
(Unless Kegs 'o Beer were rolled out)

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Well, I want the intellectually elite in charge of things. I want the smart people running the show.

I as well.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Well, in fairness, the left does it too with the 'so-and-so has two daddies/mommies' and the like. Those are things that are not done in Asian and European nations, as they do not try to champion social causes in the classroom. In that respect, the Left is also hostile to education, but just not nearly to the degree that the Right is.

Both are only hostile when money/funding is taken into consideration. Other than that, if the ATM(school funds) is open for the taking the gov's are sliding their cards for a withdrawal.