For those who care about Russian lies and history

CCIP · 11-02-12, 08:06 AM

Oh no, I'm not arguing about that at all. Of course the level of covering-up that happened in the USSR is downright disturbing, and Putin isn't exactly a gift from heaven. Just pointing out that lying and murky business around state leaders is not really a Russian trait, and the very title of this thread irks me for that reason. Russian history is not made up of lies, and quite the opposite - in some regard, we know more 'truth' about Russian history than we do about many other places', with the benefit of hindsight on the fallen Soviet era that doesn't require romanticization and is, at least outside of Russia, largely de-politicized now when it comes to historical studies. It's a tragedy that the opening of the Soviet archives was so short-lived in the 90s, but even for the brief time that those were open, an unprecedented amount of historical evidence emerged. By comparison, much Western documentary history from the Cold War era is still locked away in intelligence agencies' vaults. So, even in respect to the brave Russian historians who delved into Soviet archives before they were locked away again, "Russian lies and Russian history" just strikes me as unfair to say the least, as does the notion that somehow Western history is more open. In some ways the reverse is true. Give credit where it's due, etc.

Sailor Steve · 11-02-12, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

Just pointing out that lying and murky business around state leaders is not really a Russian trait, and the very title of this thread irks me for that reason.

Got that right!

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"Russian lies and Russian history" just strikes me as unfair to say the least, as does the notion that somehow Western history is more open. In some ways the reverse is true. Give credit where it's due, etc.

In that I have to agree.

geetrue · 11-02-12, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

Just pointing out that lying and murky business around state leaders is not really a Russian trait, and the very title of this thread irks me for that reason. Russian history is not made up of lies, and quite the opposite - in some regard, we know more 'truth' about Russian history than we do about many other places', with the benefit of hindsight on the fallen Soviet era that doesn't require romanticization and is, at least outside of Russia, largely de-politicized now when it comes to historical studies. It's a tragedy that the opening of the Soviet archives was so short-lived in the 90s, but even for the brief time that those were open, an unprecedented amount of historical evidence emerged. By comparison, much Western documentary history from the Cold War era is still locked away in intelligence agencies' vaults. So, even in respect to the brave Russian historians who delved into Soviet archives before they were locked away again, "Russian lies and Russian history" just strikes me as unfair to say the least, as does the notion that somehow Western history is more open. In some ways the reverse is true. Give credit where it's due, etc.

I was not aware that Russia had opened up it's archives to tell the truth for I spent my twenties on an FBM submarine with history books full of horrible things Russia had done after WWII. Mostly Stalin of course and most of my views are before the wall fell in 89 I think.

So I apoligize for being old and too stubborn to think that they have started to tell it's citzens the truth.

https://www.cia.gov/index.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...ook/index.html

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The World Factbook provides information on the history, people, government, economy, geography, communications, transportation, military, and transnational issues for 267 world entities. Our Reference tab includes: maps of the major world regions, as well as Flags of the World, a Physical Map of the World, a Political Map of the World, a World Oceans map, and a Standard Time Zones of the World map.

Show me the link to KGB facts ...

You may have grown up there, true and think they told you the truth, but did they tell your parents the truth? I doubt it ... I do not mean that in a meanful spirit.

USA has President Johnson's lies of two North Vietnam patrol boats attacking the poor DE Turner Joy, which never happened resulting in 58,000 men and women losing their lives.

Just to point out a USA mistake, but we can at least argue the point online in this country.

Hottentot · 11-02-12, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geetrue

Show me the link to KGB facts ...

You do realize that KGB hasn't existed in two decades, don't you?

As Steve has put it to a certain other member many times: it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

geetrue · 11-02-12, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hottentot

You do realize that KGB hasn't existed in two decades, don't you?

No, as a matter of fact I didn't know that ... now I have to read up all of the new rubbish the FSS will spew out, but as I have learned on our own news stations of ABC, CBS and NBC and Fox news to wait for the the third and fourth story on anything lol

Federal Security Service (Russia) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Security_Service_(Russia)

Common name: Federal Security ... Initial reorganization of the KGB. ... lead to committing crimes and arrest people for 15 days if they fail to comply …

11-02-12, 08:06 AM	#1
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Oh no, I'm not arguing about that at all. Of course the level of covering-up that happened in the USSR is downright disturbing, and Putin isn't exactly a gift from heaven. Just pointing out that lying and murky business around state leaders is not really a Russian trait, and the very title of this thread irks me for that reason. Russian history is not made up of lies, and quite the opposite - in some regard, we know more 'truth' about Russian history than we do about many other places', with the benefit of hindsight on the fallen Soviet era that doesn't require romanticization and is, at least outside of Russia, largely de-politicized now when it comes to historical studies. It's a tragedy that the opening of the Soviet archives was so short-lived in the 90s, but even for the brief time that those were open, an unprecedented amount of historical evidence emerged. By comparison, much Western documentary history from the Cold War era is still locked away in intelligence agencies' vaults. So, even in respect to the brave Russian historians who delved into Soviet archives before they were locked away again, "Russian lies and Russian history" just strikes me as unfair to say the least, as does the notion that somehow Western history is more open. In some ways the reverse is true. Give credit where it's due, etc. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) Last edited by CCIP; 11-02-12 at 08:32 AM.