Windows 8: Microsoft spent three years killing the Start menu ?

the_tyrant · 10-24-12, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VipertheSniper

I really like a lot of things about Win8, like the ribbons in the explorer, or the fact that you can pause filetransfers. But what I could do without, is the touchscreen optimized desktop, formerly known as Metro. Gimme that start button back.

Also the handling of the apps without a touchscreen is horrid. Although I suppose even with a touchscreen they wouldn't fare much better. The IE app for example is a POS.

Hmm, why don't you like IE10? I'm typing this comment on IE10, and to be honest, it is absolutely the best version of IE ever (not usually a high bar, but IE9 was pretty good)

VipertheSniper · 10-25-12, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

Hmm, why don't you like IE10? I'm typing this comment on IE10, and to be honest, it is absolutely the best version of IE ever (not usually a high bar, but IE9 was pretty good)

I'm talking the App-version that you open from the tile screen...

the normal desktop variant is fine.

longam · 10-25-12, 04:22 PM

One of the most striking things about the new Microsoft operating system – beyond the Metro user interface – is the lack of a traditional Start menu in favour of tiles. However with a desktop view available for running legacy apps, it seems likely that users will appreciate the ability to use a Windows 8 computer in much the same way as they have used each version of Windows since the mid-1990s.

Of course, this means manually switching from the Metro view – or does it? A useful registry hack can be used to disable Metro, restoring the classic Start menu and desktop view as the default user interface. Sadly this fix will only work with the Windows 8 Developer Preview, rather than with the new Windows 8 Consumer Preview, due to tighter integration of the Metro UI with the various Windows screens. However Microsoft has indicated that there will be a method to disable Metro or set the desktop view as the default for corporate users, so those of you looking ahead shouldn’t be too concerned just yet.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/quickly...ace-windows-8/

Skybird · 10-25-12, 07:00 PM

Metro surface is for tablets. For heaven'S sake, let's leave it to tablets, then. Like console menus rarely are comfortable on PC, they were designed for consoles, and on PCs they mostly are a pain. Using metro on a PC, with mouse and keyboard, is a compromise at best, and I read that Microsoft has deliberately deleted in past weeks any chance to have traditional Starting menu/button modded back into it, or having the traditional OS looks booting first. They want to force it onto you, you must learn to accept Metro, they want it so. The question is: why?

First, their new hardware strategy is meant to get some share from the pie that so far Google, Amazon ebooks, Applestore and such installation enjoy for themselves. They want it,l and the customer has to deliver it to them,. so their philosophy. This comes at a cost often ignored:

Second, I have no doubt that the new licensing system sooner or later will see them tightening the screws, and I think this is one of their major motivations for having designed this new system the way it is now. That means your software, love older games and simulation for example, maybe will not run anymore, for they are not bought via Microsoft's own appstore, and are not licensed. That is a perspective that is really worrying, for it also means that the quality of games is to drop.

What Microsoft does is effectively starting to implement the closed-universe business model by Apple'S appstore.

If you do not want that, you must hope that W8 will become a hurting financial disaster for them, because else they will succeed with their plan.

But there could be a benefit which already is to be seen by the fact that Steam - I still hate it

- has started to develope foir Linux. They want to avoid getting caught and dried out ion the Microsoft trap. The developer of Minecraft has put down a demand by Microsoft that he should subscribe to get his program licensed for W8. Other studios and developers, I read, also have decided to leave W8 alone and not to follow Microsoft'S wish to get theirt products licensed by MS. They all said they want to develope stronger for Linux, and this could maybe - maybe - after all these many years mean a breakthrough fore Linux not just on servers and universities, but in the private PC sector as well, where it still is , let'S face it, an exception from the rule.

For the sake of future gaming and simulations, I hope that W8 blows up and explodes MS right into the face. Neal, go W7 x64. It's good, really. that tablets and gesture screens need a new OS philosophy, in principle is a non-brainer. But leave it to tablerts then, do niot mess up PC handling - it is tested and proven since 20 years. Why are there no cars with stick-control? Because steering wheels were found to work best.

Skybird · 10-25-12, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longam

Of course, this means manually switching from the Metro view – or does it? A useful registry hack can be used to disable Metro, restoring the classic Start menu and desktop view as the default user interface.

Are you sure? Some time ago it was reported that they have deleted the ability to use that hack, or do I mistake some things there? During public beta, that hack was used, but the latest versions delivered were unable to be hacked that way, I read.

longam · 10-26-12, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Are you sure? Some time ago it was reported that they have deleted the ability to use that hack, or do I mistake some things there? During public beta, that hack was used, but the latest versions delivered were unable to be hacked that way, I read.

Looking at the article it seems that corp version will be able to turn it off, guessing this means the bulk license expensive version.

Another major mistake MS?

SeaWolf U-57 · 10-28-12, 12:34 PM

I have just installed Windows 8 Pro running in 64bit configuration and I must say it is pretty damn good the time taken to install the software is fast but the best it yet to come.
The boot up time is next to instantaneous as I hardly see the windows 8 logo (which is good because its crap)
then it takes on the look of my mobile phone which is running the android operating system.
At first I didn't like this look but I must admit it grows on you as did the next screen that again look like the apps screen on my mobile phone.
But as you use this operating system you find more exciting things you can play around with and change to suit the way you want the operating system to look or run.
You can choose to use the desktop and place items on the taskbar as with the older versions and I am still using the same programs that I use on my Windows 7 Machine so compatibility seems not to be a problem.
Ok you say but what about drivers do they all work with Windows 8 well no is the simple answer there are updated drivers for Window 8 out there for sure and as I used the upgrade assistant to download Window 8 it told me what needed to be done and also where to find the drivers needed.

Ok I am running a i5 processor with 8Gb of ram and with Windows 8 running the system is super fast.
Also the graphics are truly improved and crystal clear and I can say its well worth the effort of buying and installing it I also used the beta copy of Windows 8 but the full version is totally different I will be using the operating system from now on ok before the will it questions start I have not installed any version of Silent Hunter to Try. So I cant yet say if all will work with it or not but I cant see why not.

kiwi_2005 · 11-15-12, 03:44 AM

Dont be hating on me guys but im about to install Windows 8 pro tonight. Yea i know what was it i said. Windows 7 will do me for another 5yrs or something

. But i did my research all day today - tech reviews, blogs & gaming blogs. Aparently Valve are upset but that's another story.

I just wanna see if i dont go psycho like some of the reviewers when getting use to metro. Remembering key commands is the way to go with 8. Gaming wise windows 8 is suppose to be fine.

SeaWolf U-57 · 10-28-12, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Are you sure? Some time ago it was reported that they have deleted the ability to use that hack, or do I mistake some things there? During public beta, that hack was used, but the latest versions delivered were unable to be hacked that way, I read.

All you have to do is select on button on the start menu to go to and use the old desktop view

Skybird · 10-28-12, 05:00 PM

I was referring to reports over this year like this:

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft...t-button-hacks

or this

http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/31/wi...tart-button-2/

or this

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...-with-surface/

that kept to come in since early summer and until August or Septemeber this year.

The last released W8 public Beta I have read indeed lacked the ability to use these hacks.

If MS put back in these functions, than probably because they realised the wind blowing into their face. It also remains to be seen whether it stays this way, or again gets deleted in some subsequent SP. But the basic logic of theirs remains the same of course. If Metro-OS should become successful and with it the new app-licensing scheme being established, they must achieve that developers develope for Metro, not old Windows.

In the other thread on game compatability I have explained why I think that from gamer's perspective a success of W8 will hurt gaming, especially niche games, simulations, and modding in general. That's why I think it is in our best interest to help keeping sales numbers low and hope that it becomes a disastrous fail for MS. It must really hurt them, else they will not give up the idea to turn the PC from a free game-platform into an appstore-universe where MS always holds you at a line and makes money from that.

the_tyrant · 10-28-12, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I was referring to reports over this year like this:

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft...t-button-hacks

or this

http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/31/wi...tart-button-2/

or this

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...-with-surface/

that kept to come in since early summer and until August or Septemeber this year.

The last released W8 public Beta I have read indeed lacked the ability to use these hacks.

If MS put back in these functions, than probably because they realised the wind blowing into their face. It also remains to be seen whether it stays this way, or again gets deleted in some subsequent SP. But the basic logic of theirs remains the same of course. If Metro-OS should become successful and with it the new app-licensing scheme being established, they must achieve that developers develope for Metro, not old Windows.

In the other thread on game compatability I have explained why I think that from gamer's perspective a success of W8 will hurt gaming, especially niche games, simulations, and modding in general. That's why I think it is in our best interest to help keeping sales numbers low and hope that it becomes a disastrous fail for MS. It must really hurt them, else they will not give up the idea to turn the PC from a free game-platform into an appstore-universe where MS always holds you at a line and makes money from that.

Here is the thing with the start menu: In the developer and consumer preview versions, you can hack back the start menu with one click, since the code for the start menu was never really removed. Windows 8 is built upon windows 7, and in the betas, the code was simply left in there.

However, in the official version, microsoft removed all the useless stuff, and thus, the start menu code was removed (along with a lot more stuff that is never used again).

However, microsoft does not "block" start menus. Many OEMs like Samsung created their own start menu, and bundled it with their new windows 8 PCs.

I doubt that microsoft would give up on the app store, more importantly, I doubt that application developers would give up on the app store. Historically, application developers have always embraced the app store model, and the app store itself is already welcomed by many developers, since it provides many practical advantages.

Also, I find that on windows 8 (not RT), it isn't hard to side load metro applications, it is a hell of a lot easier than symbian homebrew was.

Onkel Neal · 10-30-12, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaWolf U-57

All you have to do is select on button on the start menu to go to and use the old desktop view

I hope you're right, because I like my PC to feature a nice, crisp image without shortcuts. I use the Start button, I like it clean.

This, is seriously ugly. Looks like a throwback to Win3.1

SeaWolf U-57 · 10-31-12, 02:56 AM

Hi Neal ok then turn on your computer click the fancy lock screen which takes you to the password screen then up comes this screen.

Simply click the active desktop button will take you to this ..

And that is the screen I use you can toggle if you want to but I don't

Reading that report they say it is hard starting a program from the desktop ?? how hard is it to click a icon

HunterICX · 10-31-12, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I hope you're right, because I like my PC to feature a nice, crisp image without shortcuts. I use the Start button, I like it clean.

If you're a PC user that likes a clean desktop and a start button that isn't made out of Win 3.1 tiles there's Win7 for you.

because under the hood they're the same, Win 8 just has a GUI optimization for Touchscreen notebooks, Tablets and Smartphones and has ofcouse their needed features.

HunterICX

10-25-12, 07:00 PM	#4
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,697 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Metro surface is for tablets. For heaven'S sake, let's leave it to tablets, then. Like console menus rarely are comfortable on PC, they were designed for consoles, and on PCs they mostly are a pain. Using metro on a PC, with mouse and keyboard, is a compromise at best, and I read that Microsoft has deliberately deleted in past weeks any chance to have traditional Starting menu/button modded back into it, or having the traditional OS looks booting first. They want to force it onto you, you must learn to accept Metro, they want it so. The question is: why? First, their new hardware strategy is meant to get some share from the pie that so far Google, Amazon ebooks, Applestore and such installation enjoy for themselves. They want it,l and the customer has to deliver it to them,. so their philosophy. This comes at a cost often ignored: Second, I have no doubt that the new licensing system sooner or later will see them tightening the screws, and I think this is one of their major motivations for having designed this new system the way it is now. That means your software, love older games and simulation for example, maybe will not run anymore, for they are not bought via Microsoft's own appstore, and are not licensed. That is a perspective that is really worrying, for it also means that the quality of games is to drop. What Microsoft does is effectively starting to implement the closed-universe business model by Apple'S appstore. If you do not want that, you must hope that W8 will become a hurting financial disaster for them, because else they will succeed with their plan. But there could be a benefit which already is to be seen by the fact that Steam - I still hate it - has started to develope foir Linux. They want to avoid getting caught and dried out ion the Microsoft trap. The developer of Minecraft has put down a demand by Microsoft that he should subscribe to get his program licensed for W8. Other studios and developers, I read, also have decided to leave W8 alone and not to follow Microsoft'S wish to get theirt products licensed by MS. They all said they want to develope stronger for Linux, and this could maybe - maybe - after all these many years mean a breakthrough fore Linux not just on servers and universities, but in the private PC sector as well, where it still is , let'S face it, an exception from the rule. For the sake of future gaming and simulations, I hope that W8 blows up and explodes MS right into the face. Neal, go W7 x64. It's good, really. that tablets and gesture screens need a new OS philosophy, in principle is a non-brainer. But leave it to tablerts then, do niot mess up PC handling - it is tested and proven since 20 years. Why are there no cars with stick-control? Because steering wheels were found to work best. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-15-12, 03:44 AM	#8
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	Dont be hating on me guys but im about to install Windows 8 pro tonight. Yea i know what was it i said. Windows 7 will do me for another 5yrs or something . But i did my research all day today - tech reviews, blogs & gaming blogs. Aparently Valve are upset but that's another story. I just wanna see if i dont go psycho like some of the reviewers when getting use to metro. Remembering key commands is the way to go with 8. Gaming wise windows 8 is suppose to be fine. __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.

10-28-12, 05:00 PM	#10
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,697 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I was referring to reports over this year like this: http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft...t-button-hacks or this http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/31/wi...tart-button-2/ or this http://arstechnica.com/information-t...-with-surface/ that kept to come in since early summer and until August or Septemeber this year. The last released W8 public Beta I have read indeed lacked the ability to use these hacks. If MS put back in these functions, than probably because they realised the wind blowing into their face. It also remains to be seen whether it stays this way, or again gets deleted in some subsequent SP. But the basic logic of theirs remains the same of course. If Metro-OS should become successful and with it the new app-licensing scheme being established, they must achieve that developers develope for Metro, not old Windows. In the other thread on game compatability I have explained why I think that from gamer's perspective a success of W8 will hurt gaming, especially niche games, simulations, and modding in general. That's why I think it is in our best interest to help keeping sales numbers low and hope that it becomes a disastrous fail for MS. It must really hurt them, else they will not give up the idea to turn the PC from a free game-platform into an appstore-universe where MS always holds you at a line and makes money from that. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-31-12, 02:56 AM	#13
SeaWolf U-57 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,231 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	Hi Neal ok then turn on your computer click the fancy lock screen which takes you to the password screen then up comes this screen. Simply click the active desktop button will take you to this .. And that is the screen I use you can toggle if you want to but I don't Reading that report they say it is hard starting a program from the desktop ?? how hard is it to click a icon Last edited by SeaWolf U-57; 11-01-12 at 05:27 AM.

10-25-12, 04:22 PM	#3
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	One of the most striking things about the new Microsoft operating system – beyond the Metro user interface – is the lack of a traditional Start menu in favour of tiles. However with a desktop view available for running legacy apps, it seems likely that users will appreciate the ability to use a Windows 8 computer in much the same way as they have used each version of Windows since the mid-1990s. Of course, this means manually switching from the Metro view – or does it? A useful registry hack can be used to disable Metro, restoring the classic Start menu and desktop view as the default user interface. Sadly this fix will only work with the Windows 8 Developer Preview, rather than with the new Windows 8 Consumer Preview, due to tighter integration of the Metro UI with the various Windows screens. However Microsoft has indicated that there will be a method to disable Metro or set the desktop view as the default for corporate users, so those of you looking ahead shouldn’t be too concerned just yet. http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/quickly...ace-windows-8/

10-28-12, 12:34 PM	#7
SeaWolf U-57 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,231 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	I have just installed Windows 8 Pro running in 64bit configuration and I must say it is pretty damn good the time taken to install the software is fast but the best it yet to come. The boot up time is next to instantaneous as I hardly see the windows 8 logo (which is good because its crap) then it takes on the look of my mobile phone which is running the android operating system. At first I didn't like this look but I must admit it grows on you as did the next screen that again look like the apps screen on my mobile phone. But as you use this operating system you find more exciting things you can play around with and change to suit the way you want the operating system to look or run. You can choose to use the desktop and place items on the taskbar as with the older versions and I am still using the same programs that I use on my Windows 7 Machine so compatibility seems not to be a problem. Ok you say but what about drivers do they all work with Windows 8 well no is the simple answer there are updated drivers for Window 8 out there for sure and as I used the upgrade assistant to download Window 8 it told me what needed to be done and also where to find the drivers needed. Ok I am running a i5 processor with 8Gb of ram and with Windows 8 running the system is super fast. Also the graphics are truly improved and crystal clear and I can say its well worth the effort of buying and installing it I also used the beta copy of Windows 8 but the full version is totally different I will be using the operating system from now on ok before the will it questions start I have not installed any version of Silent Hunter to Try. So I cant yet say if all will work with it or not but I cant see why not.