Marines held in murder inquiry

Jimbuna · 10-12-12, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Seven Royal Marines have been arrested on suspicion of murder, the Ministry of Defence has said.
The arrests by the Royal Military Police related to an incident in Afghanistan last year, when 3 Commando Brigade was based in Helmand.
The MoD said the incident followed an "engagement with an insurgent" and no civilians were involved.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19918398

Has anybody any idea what the actual incident was because my sources can't find any further details?

Herr-Berbunch · 10-12-12, 08:06 AM

Purely speculative, and personal experience, Rules of Engagement differ between theatre but usually along the same lines of 'you fire when there is an imminent threat to life' (not property!). You can shoot someone taking aim, but you cannot shoot someone planting an IED.

Either they defended an attack and then went after the guys retreating (not now an imminent threat), or they spotted people planting devices and decided it was a imminent threat to life - even though technically it may have been - but within the rules it wasn't.

My best guess, I could be wrong.

Jimbuna · 10-12-12, 08:12 AM

Could be pretty close considering they say it was an insurgent and not a civilian.

I hope they didn't capture one then carry out a summary execution.

Oberon · 10-12-12, 08:13 AM

It's said that no civilians were involved in the event, so I'd wager that they overstepped the ROE. Could well be one of those situations where your emotions get the better of you. Either way though, ROEs are there for a reason, even if they don't make sense, and you can't really make exceptions.

Oberon · 10-12-12, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I hope they didn't capture one then carry out a summary execution.

Alas, Jim, that would be my best guess if I'm honest.

Herr-Berbunch · 10-12-12, 08:23 AM

Losing 23 buddies would make my emotions take over, I'm sure.

Oberon · 10-12-12, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Losing 23 buddies would make my emotions take over, I'm sure.

Aye, I don't envy what those lads have seen, heard and felt one bit.

Jimbuna · 10-12-12, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Alas, Jim, that would be my best guess if I'm honest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Losing 23 buddies would make my emotions take over, I'm sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Aye, I don't envy what those lads have seen, heard and felt one bit.

Whatever eventually comes out I only hope they aren't made scapegoats in some political attempt at appeasing a seriously corrupt and disfunctional ally.

10-13-12, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Has anybody any idea what the actual incident was because my sources can't find any further details?

It seems that while investigating another unrelated case the military found a video of the marines discussing what to do with the wounded from the firefight.

Jimbuna · 10-13-12, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

It seems that while investigating another unrelated case the military found a video of the marines discussing what to do with the wounded from the firefight.

So does that mean they carried out what they were discussing and video led them to said crime?

Yours is the only additional info I have atm.

Herr-Berbunch · 10-13-12, 02:59 PM

If that's the case then it seems nothing has been learnt from previous video 'embarrassments'.

Jimbuna · 10-13-12, 03:52 PM

Very true

Jimbuna · 10-14-12, 04:20 AM

Five have been charged with murder:

Quote:

Five Royal Marines have been charged with murder in connection with an incident in Afghanistan in 2011, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed.
Two marines were detained by Royal Military Police (RMP) over the weekend, bringing the total number of arrests to nine.
Four of those held have been released without charge.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19940138

Catfish · 10-14-12, 06:31 AM

Overstepping the ROE has always happened everywhere in every war, and usually propaganda took over and exagerrated it (or sometimes not).
However if you think about this came out because of a leaked video, it makes one wonder how much such things happen, just without having a video for evidence.

But if no civilians were involved, they shot at - soldiers ? terrorists ? after surrendering ? All sounds a bit fishy.

Jimbuna · 10-14-12, 02:09 PM

There must be some compelling evidence to charge them with murder...surely

10-12-12, 08:06 AM	#2
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	Purely speculative, and personal experience, Rules of Engagement differ between theatre but usually along the same lines of 'you fire when there is an imminent threat to life' (not property!). You can shoot someone taking aim, but you cannot shoot someone planting an IED. Either they defended an attack and then went after the guys retreating (not now an imminent threat), or they spotted people planting devices and decided it was a imminent threat to life - even though technically it may have been - but within the rules it wasn't. My best guess, I could be wrong. __________________

10-12-12, 08:12 AM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Could be pretty close considering they say it was an insurgent and not a civilian. I hope they didn't capture one then carry out a summary execution. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-12-12, 08:23 AM	#6
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	Losing 23 buddies would make my emotions take over, I'm sure. __________________

10-13-12, 02:59 PM	#11
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	If that's the case then it seems nothing has been learnt from previous video 'embarrassments'. __________________

10-13-12, 03:52 PM	#12
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Very true __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-12-12, 08:13 AM	#4
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	It's said that no civilians were involved in the event, so I'd wager that they overstepped the ROE. Could well be one of those situations where your emotions get the better of you. Either way though, ROEs are there for a reason, even if they don't make sense, and you can't really make exceptions.

10-14-12, 06:31 AM	#14
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Overstepping the ROE has always happened everywhere in every war, and usually propaganda took over and exagerrated it (or sometimes not). However if you think about this came out because of a leaked video, it makes one wonder how much such things happen, just without having a video for evidence. But if no civilians were involved, they shot at - soldiers ? terrorists ? after surrendering ? All sounds a bit fishy.

10-14-12, 02:09 PM	#15
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	There must be some compelling evidence to charge them with murder...surely __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!