Carrier Command Beta due out tommorow... - Page 4

Skybird · 09-27-12, 05:37 AM

First feedback posts about the final version have started to drop in in their forums. The enemy AI as well as pathfinding AI continue to take fire. What I read in this regard, to me is show stopper category. Combat units getting endlessly stuck or destroying themselves by navigating into mountains, disqualifies any game from landing on my HD.

BI has done much patching on ArmA games in the past - fixing the terrible AI nevertheless never has been a priority of theirs, taking them sometimes over a year to get something vital and elemental fixed, more or less - substandard quality their AI always has remained to be. They just seem to not knowing how to do it, programming-wise or design-wise or both.

The chaos about their 3rd Beta is not encouraging either.

My expectation level has dropped considerably, and I currently do not have the game on my interest list anymore. Maybe I will recheck next summer or so. Judging by past ArmA games, it is not worth to recheck earlier than after many months.

People say BI has a good record on patching. One could also see this the other way around: one could see endless stream of patches as a lousy release policy.

Drewcifer · 09-27-12, 11:30 AM

I still don't have it, but my friend does and trust me when I tell you... everything you said is correct. If you don't actually control the walrus yourself each one individually you will lose every single one of them. Mantas don't seem as bad you can give them flight paths and targets and the can somewhat get things done although not as good as you can do it yourself.

Skybird · 09-27-12, 04:39 PM

Hate to hear that, on the other hand I am low on money, so the delay in a way is welcomed.

And I play Virtual Pool 4 currently like crazy. Superb!

Drewcifer · 09-28-12, 11:19 AM

For those that got the P & C preorder I think everybody is unlocked now. Steam will unlock in about an hour to everybody else.

Skybird · 09-28-12, 02:32 PM

Patch is out. Already, on day one. Release day. And it adresses things they know since many months.

I know that some will dance and cheer and saying "Oh look how dedicated to supporting their game they are." I disagree. To me this illustrates just again how very illprepared their release has been. If you release a game in a known broken condition, fire a beta when the DVDs already shipped, and release a patch already on day one, then something went terribly wrong earlier. Must be a very chaotic company.

No feedback on the quality of the patch so far. Readme just lists "Walrus AI". No word on Manta AI, pathfinding AI and such. 13 MB in size. Sounds more like a quick emergency hotfix. Damage control? Something tells me there will come more patches - or the title will disappear quickly from the shelves.

Arclight · 09-28-12, 02:47 PM

13MB? That's a hell of a lot of code. Good on 'm.

Skybird · 09-29-12, 06:32 AM

More Walrus-bashing in their forum, even when giving feedback on the "patch". Some say it cripples the game beyond reasonable playability.

They got told month after month, and did nothing to fix it. A patch now - also does not fix it.

That reminds me of some ArmA patches where also occasionally "improvements to the AI" were listed in the readme. Just that I never was able to see the differences, with the exception of just one single patch for ArmA2 were there was a small improvement indeed. And I think that patch was a community patch, wasn't it, no official BI patch.

I hereby formally and officially declare Carrier Command a KIA, as far as my wallet is concerned. Will stop check it out and worry about a decision now. Such lousy policies should not be supported - by paying money for them.

Such stories really anger me. So self-repeating. So unnecessary. So disappointing. With every game of theirs, the same bull: AI broken. Obviously they are resistant to learning effects. Or they have learned that financially they get away with it.

P.S. First site-reviews of CC can already be found on the web. All that have been filed, point out the bad AI as well, and it makes the scores to drop. The reviews I read this morning, three of them, say the title is rich in good features - and gets too massively hampered by the bad AI - even by console standards.

Arclight · 09-29-12, 08:50 AM

Ah well, as expected then. Arma AI initially couldn't drive down a straight road either.

Hopefully it won't take too long, would love to throw some money at them.

Wonder how capable the Mantas are...

Skybird · 09-29-12, 09:33 AM

Oh my FSM!

But I love that Buster Keatonesque reaction of the guy in the foreground. One could really imagine his facial expression, staring.

Skybird · 09-29-12, 10:47 AM

BTW, if somebody in Germany still wants to buy it: at German Amazon it costs 38 Euros, at British Amazon already just 25 Euros (20 Pounds). Just add 2-4 additional days shipping time (telling by experience). No taxes, no shipping costs.

Drewcifer · 09-29-12, 01:07 PM

Alright I own it and I've put in some serious time with the Single Player "Campaign" not the free form sandbox strategy part. Heres what I have to say...

First let me address the AI... yes the Walrus AI stinks. Sending one to a point isn't bad but if you group them up they do the honey bee dance around eachother for 15 minutes before they get sorted IF they get sorted. Some of it can be avoided by just controlling the lead walrus yourself and drive to the destination the others just sort of manage to tag along but barely if a rock jumps out in the road you'll lose one.

The FPS sections of the game are done so poorly well... I don't even know why they are in the game frankly. You character runs SUPER FAST you can't use cover but hell you don't need to you can just run full speed through the level and shoot everything and it dies and it can't hurt you. Its really pathetic.. worst FPS game I've ever played not to mention now in a couple of levels the gun in my characters hand started having texture issues and went from HD to pixelated to upside down and bent... all of which I could control but where I was walking in the level. OF course the actual meat and bones of the game doesn't suffer from that the Graphics have been flawless in vehicle and buildings which is essentially the whole game.

All in all I think its a great strategy game. For the most part the Walrus stuff is not excusable to I understand that much however the mantas do very well aslong as you keep them away from hostiles that try to kite them back into AA fire.

Overall I would give the game a 8/10 The single player campaign is basically a giant tutorial teaching all the features of the game over a long and slow unlocking process. The game would have been ALOT better if they had working walrus pathfinding, or simply allowed the walrus to turn in place like a tank... and they should have cut the on foot FPS sections they are a horrible and disconnected feature that somebody will see and say Nope horrible game I'm not getting it.

+ I forget to add in the FPS sections you take damage from running into things... just like the vehicles which I understand the bumper impact on a walrus but seriously why am I getting hurt for running into things?

soopaman2 · 09-29-12, 09:36 PM

I caught this on my steam window, and if not for other games I would have bitten.

I liked being able to control different units, but is the transition fluid, or do you have to choose one or the other? Like can I go from a plane, to a tank. etc?

This game is on my list once I get bored with what I have.

It really looks beautiful, from what I saw.

soopaman2 · 09-30-12, 01:37 AM

To address previous posts, thoughts on most official forums are whiners.

Happy people are typically playing, and not bitching.

I am still waiting for non scripted sea invasions in Empire total war, since pipe dreams come true.

Bohemia is a good gaming company, Then again EA is my benchmark of badness, and "screw you" to customers.

This is on my list, as soon as my mortgage check goes through, and I get through some DLC on other games. AC3 is due out too, plus time with the family. Sheesh, I should have married my computer. (I am so in trouble for that if she sees that one)

More hours in a day, and higher tolerances for lack of sleep in humans would make me happy.
Grrrrrr
Any demo versions?

I loved the ArmA series.

Skybird · 09-30-12, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Happy people are typically playing, and not bitching.

Aha. So that so many people are "bitching" instead of playing, indicates in return that they are not happy with what they have gotten.

Maybe because the playability is seriously suffering?

Just checked the latest feedback. It doesn't become any better. Many people already have abandoned the game for the time being. And many agree that it was released many months too early. Since the Walrus-AI and Manta AI are welldocumented since months and the Walrusses being the most prominent showstopper, there are many other, though smaller issues as well, with balancing, carrier logic, supply system...

What I just do not get over is that they released another Beta with the Gold version already printed on DVD and in delivery to the shops, and that they ignored the most devastatic issue since many months, despite plenty of feedback on it and existence of that bug in earlier betas as well, and completely ignored it until the very end. These two things really tell something.

Sonarman · 09-30-12, 07:56 AM

Probably spent most of their time fixing/revising the console versions knowing they could return & fix the PC version post release.

09-27-12, 05:37 AM	#46
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,674 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	First feedback posts about the final version have started to drop in in their forums. The enemy AI as well as pathfinding AI continue to take fire. What I read in this regard, to me is show stopper category. Combat units getting endlessly stuck or destroying themselves by navigating into mountains, disqualifies any game from landing on my HD. BI has done much patching on ArmA games in the past - fixing the terrible AI nevertheless never has been a priority of theirs, taking them sometimes over a year to get something vital and elemental fixed, more or less - substandard quality their AI always has remained to be. They just seem to not knowing how to do it, programming-wise or design-wise or both. The chaos about their 3rd Beta is not encouraging either. My expectation level has dropped considerably, and I currently do not have the game on my interest list anymore. Maybe I will recheck next summer or so. Judging by past ArmA games, it is not worth to recheck earlier than after many months. People say BI has a good record on patching. One could also see this the other way around: one could see endless stream of patches as a lousy release policy. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-27-12, 04:39 PM	#48
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,674 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Hate to hear that, on the other hand I am low on money, so the delay in a way is welcomed. And I play Virtual Pool 4 currently like crazy. Superb! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-28-12, 02:32 PM	#50
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,674 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Patch is out. Already, on day one. Release day. And it adresses things they know since many months. I know that some will dance and cheer and saying "Oh look how dedicated to supporting their game they are." I disagree. To me this illustrates just again how very illprepared their release has been. If you release a game in a known broken condition, fire a beta when the DVDs already shipped, and release a patch already on day one, then something went terribly wrong earlier. Must be a very chaotic company. No feedback on the quality of the patch so far. Readme just lists "Walrus AI". No word on Manta AI, pathfinding AI and such. 13 MB in size. Sounds more like a quick emergency hotfix. Damage control? Something tells me there will come more patches - or the title will disappear quickly from the shelves. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-28-12, 02:47 PM	#51
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	13MB? That's a hell of a lot of code. Good on 'm. __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.

09-29-12, 06:32 AM	#52
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,674 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	More Walrus-bashing in their forum, even when giving feedback on the "patch". Some say it cripples the game beyond reasonable playability. They got told month after month, and did nothing to fix it. A patch now - also does not fix it. That reminds me of some ArmA patches where also occasionally "improvements to the AI" were listed in the readme. Just that I never was able to see the differences, with the exception of just one single patch for ArmA2 were there was a small improvement indeed. And I think that patch was a community patch, wasn't it, no official BI patch. I hereby formally and officially declare Carrier Command a KIA, as far as my wallet is concerned. Will stop check it out and worry about a decision now. Such lousy policies should not be supported - by paying money for them. Such stories really anger me. So self-repeating. So unnecessary. So disappointing. With every game of theirs, the same bull: AI broken. Obviously they are resistant to learning effects. Or they have learned that financially they get away with it. P.S. First site-reviews of CC can already be found on the web. All that have been filed, point out the bad AI as well, and it makes the scores to drop. The reviews I read this morning, three of them, say the title is rich in good features - and gets too massively hampered by the bad AI - even by console standards. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-27-12, 11:30 AM	#47
Drewcifer Commodore Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 601 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I still don't have it, but my friend does and trust me when I tell you... everything you said is correct. If you don't actually control the walrus yourself each one individually you will lose every single one of them. Mantas don't seem as bad you can give them flight paths and targets and the can somewhat get things done although not as good as you can do it yourself.

09-28-12, 11:19 AM	#49
Drewcifer Commodore Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 601 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	For those that got the P & C preorder I think everybody is unlocked now. Steam will unlock in about an hour to everybody else.

09-29-12, 08:50 AM	#53
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	Ah well, as expected then. Arma AI initially couldn't drive down a straight road either. Hopefully it won't take too long, would love to throw some money at them. Wonder how capable the Mantas are... __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.

09-29-12, 09:33 AM	#54
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,674 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Oh my FSM! But I love that Buster Keatonesque reaction of the guy in the foreground. One could really imagine his facial expression, staring. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-29-12, 10:47 AM	#55
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,674 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	BTW, if somebody in Germany still wants to buy it: at German Amazon it costs 38 Euros, at British Amazon already just 25 Euros (20 Pounds). Just add 2-4 additional days shipping time (telling by experience). No taxes, no shipping costs. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-29-12, 01:07 PM	#56
Drewcifer Commodore Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 601 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Alright I own it and I've put in some serious time with the Single Player "Campaign" not the free form sandbox strategy part. Heres what I have to say... First let me address the AI... yes the Walrus AI stinks. Sending one to a point isn't bad but if you group them up they do the honey bee dance around eachother for 15 minutes before they get sorted IF they get sorted. Some of it can be avoided by just controlling the lead walrus yourself and drive to the destination the others just sort of manage to tag along but barely if a rock jumps out in the road you'll lose one. The FPS sections of the game are done so poorly well... I don't even know why they are in the game frankly. You character runs SUPER FAST you can't use cover but hell you don't need to you can just run full speed through the level and shoot everything and it dies and it can't hurt you. Its really pathetic.. worst FPS game I've ever played not to mention now in a couple of levels the gun in my characters hand started having texture issues and went from HD to pixelated to upside down and bent... all of which I could control but where I was walking in the level. OF course the actual meat and bones of the game doesn't suffer from that the Graphics have been flawless in vehicle and buildings which is essentially the whole game. All in all I think its a great strategy game. For the most part the Walrus stuff is not excusable to I understand that much however the mantas do very well aslong as you keep them away from hostiles that try to kite them back into AA fire. Overall I would give the game a 8/10 The single player campaign is basically a giant tutorial teaching all the features of the game over a long and slow unlocking process. The game would have been ALOT better if they had working walrus pathfinding, or simply allowed the walrus to turn in place like a tank... and they should have cut the on foot FPS sections they are a horrible and disconnected feature that somebody will see and say Nope horrible game I'm not getting it. + I forget to add in the FPS sections you take damage from running into things... just like the vehicles which I understand the bumper impact on a walrus but seriously why am I getting hurt for running into things?

09-29-12, 09:36 PM	#57
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	I caught this on my steam window, and if not for other games I would have bitten. I liked being able to control different units, but is the transition fluid, or do you have to choose one or the other? Like can I go from a plane, to a tank. etc? This game is on my list once I get bored with what I have. It really looks beautiful, from what I saw. __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

09-30-12, 01:37 AM	#58
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	To address previous posts, thoughts on most official forums are whiners. Happy people are typically playing, and not bitching. I am still waiting for non scripted sea invasions in Empire total war, since pipe dreams come true. Bohemia is a good gaming company, Then again EA is my benchmark of badness, and "screw you" to customers. This is on my list, as soon as my mortgage check goes through, and I get through some DLC on other games. AC3 is due out too, plus time with the family. Sheesh, I should have married my computer. (I am so in trouble for that if she sees that one) More hours in a day, and higher tolerances for lack of sleep in humans would make me happy. Grrrrrr Any demo versions? I loved the ArmA series. __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

09-30-12, 07:56 AM	#60
Sonarman The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ayr,Scotland,UK Posts: 1,392 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 0	Probably spent most of their time fixing/revising the console versions knowing they could return & fix the PC version post release. __________________ "The action is simulated...the excitement is real!" Microprose Simulation Software.