Leaked Israeli Report Urges New Sanctions on Iran - Page 2

mapuc · 09-27-12, 02:19 PM

If I had to chose I would say the article Vendor posted is correct-that's because I'm a 110 % non-violent person

I would rather believe that Israel is getting soft and give Iran some time.

Markus

Gerald · 09-27-12, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

If I had to chose I would say the article Vendor posted is correct-that's because I'm a 110 % non-violent person

I would rather believe that Israel is getting soft and give Iran some time.

Markus

Israel will not act alone in this now, it's what I think, but it is obviously an advantage for them, that there is a strong opinion on what Iran is doing, while going to Iran in a reasonably foreseeable time, to do something with the "heavy weapons" against Israel or other countries.

MH · 09-27-12, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2

They were given that land based on something written in the bible.

Alot of people cry for Obamas birth certificate, but think Israel is hunky dory?

Obama presented his birth certificate and is still doubted, but the bible is infallible?

Who authored the bible, and what agenda did they have? Or is it infallible?

I sell bridges ya know.

Holly...(whatever suits your mood...)

Who the hell really...asks Obama or anyone else....
Get your head out of your behind...sorry for being rough here...

Opinions like yours are one of excellent reasons for having state of Israel...besides the fact that it is cool place to live.
... well... we have our problems around here lol.

It is funny how Iranian bull works on some people...

Skybird · 09-27-12, 03:44 PM

I think this report indicates something different. While Israel wanted to rally support over the past months, it did rally support indeed, but not against Iran, but against Israel. All this while Iran multiplied the number of centrifuges and is digging its program deeper and deeper into the mountains. I tend to think that Israel has no military means to reach them anymore without the US, and I also think that the US probably also cannot reach them anymore without using nukes in the megaton-range - and that is what even I have never suggested, I always talked of bunkerbusting only: softening up the soil over a subterranean installation by repeated hits with conventional bunker busters, hoping that this softening will add another couple of two or three meters for the main weapon to penetrate into the ground before it detonates.

Formally, the US has abandoned the developement of socalled mini-nukes, bombs below the 5 kt-mark and by design intended for bunker busting. However, what thy formally announced, and what they really do, is two things.

The problem is that any free-fall-bomb cannot penetreate any type of soil deeper than let'S say 12-13 meters. That is not enough to prevent a mini-nuke produzcing plenty of fallout, and deflecting the most of its blow not into the gorund to crack open a bunker, but into the empty air. Deeper penetration ranges of up to some 40 meters have been demonstrated - but only by rocket-motored projectiles on rails, travelling at I think 4000 mph or so.

Now consider that already years ago it was reported that Iran had started to move its installations into mountain tunnels and super-hardened bunkers, up to 120 meters deep. 120 meters of granite, rock, and whatever mountains are made of, plus them clever engineers having certainly considered blast escape tunnels and so on. Then the real bunker begins: steel-concrete, build with massive knowledge last but not least from the West.

Command-bunkers for Minuteman-missile silos were designed to withstand close-by detonations in the multi-megaton-range. Anyone here thinking you can impress them, damage, them, destroy them by using a conventional massive ordnance? Or former NORAD command in Cheyenne Mountain - taking it out by a conventional MOAB? Hardly.

I think the West has overplayed his cards, and that now the time has run out. They are out of reach, that simple. If now you want to destroy these installations, one would need to do it from within, and that would meanb what probably is an impossible war: boots on the ground, invasion, spoecial commandos, infiltrating the basis, demolitioning them from within. Chances I give that for sufficient success: 1%. And that is optimistic, I think.

I predict for the coming years that our wonderful leaders now will slowly start to softtalk on the issue, that they will lure us slowly into lending a nuclear Iran a hand as a sign of our good will, we will get familiarized with the prospect of nuclear weapons in Iran, and will be made to slowly accept and tolerate it.

Over this year, there were some reports, that were almost overseen and only were minor in the news papers, but I got one of them confirmed by one former pro for whom I have worked in the early nineties. The one news said that the Turks have seriously started to prepare to implement a nuclear weapon program. The other said that the Mursi government has confirmed a re-u-turn that was made already by Mubarak. Egypt has had a nuclear weapon program in the 60s and until the early 70s, then shut it down, and Mubarak even rejected to get nukes from the falling-apart Soviet Union after the fall. But before the revolution reached Egypt, he has revoked the nuclear weapon program, and the new Mursi government in all secrecy has confirmed that decision. I think the race already has started, and Syria is known to have been trying as well before Israel struck it some years ago.

Hey West, have fun everybody. You messed it up, now deal with the potentially self-destroying consequences. This nuclear arms race is a hundred times more dangerous, unpredictable and irrational, than the cold war ever was with the exception of Cuba at the height of the crisis.

And no, I do not think that we will make it through once again in one piece.

Takeda Shingen · 09-27-12, 03:50 PM

I'm just praying that they don't take out the Edgar C. Hoover dam before we get a chance to locate it ourselves.

soopaman2 · 09-27-12, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

Holly...(whatever suits your mood...)

Who the hell really...asks Obama or anyone else....
Get your head out of your behind...sorry for being rough here...

Opinions like yours are one of excellent reasons for having state of Israel...besides the fact that it is cool place to live.
... well... we have our problems around here lol.

It is funny how Iranian bull works on some people...

So why else did they get that land?

Oh 6 million.

What about the Romanii, a whole ton of them got killed too.

My head is not in my ass.

It sees things through a clear window, not marred by my religious beliefs.
I do not attack the Jewish religion, I simply question the land stealing that we sanctioned post WW2, after fighting against a country for stealing someone elses land.

Love it or hate it, but I got a valid point.

Skybird · 09-27-12, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I'm just praying that they don't take out the Edgar C. Hoover dam before we get a chance to locate it ourselves.

If that dam, or any other, ever gets pulverised by a friendly smiling tourist who left his unsuspicious van behind on the parking lot, we will see if you then still feel tempted to mock a foreigner's not always perfect knowledge about the precise names of your places and locations, with all tens of thousands of your countrymen floating dead in the waters.

But maybe you are lucky, and it is not that dam, but Frankfurt in Germany. At least you then can live on by the illusion that this all does not affect the US.

Takeda Shingen · 09-27-12, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

If that dam, or any other, ever gets pulverised by a friendly smiling tourist who left his unsuspicious van behind on the parking lot, we will see if you then still feel tempted to mock a foreigner's not always perfect knowledge about the precise names of your places and locations, with all tens of thousands of your countrymen floating dead in the waters.

But maybe you are lucky, and it is not that dam, but Frankfurt in Germany. At least you then can live on by the illusion that this all does not affect the US.

You have no sense of humor.

Skybird · 09-27-12, 04:34 PM

Regarding you: currently not.

Takeda Shingen · 09-27-12, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Regarding you: currently not.

MH · 09-27-12, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Love it or hate it, but I got a valid point.

Yeah right...very rational.

With time you all might come to believe that Israel is a threat to world peace because it will be easer than dealing with bunch of crazy Muslims with nukes.
Ahmadinejad...

Anyway have fun...

Takeda Shingen · 09-27-12, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

Yeah right...very rational.

With time you all might come to believe that Israel is a threat to world peace because it will be easer than dealing with bunch of crazy Muslims with nukes.
Ahmadinejad...

So criticism of Israel is now equal to holocaust denial. And above, Skybird has given us descriptions of thousand of dead Americans floating in Lake Mead as a warning if we don't use nuclear weapons against Iran.

Great thread you all have going here.

MH · 09-27-12, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

So criticism of Israel is now equal to holocaust denial. And above, Skybird has given us descriptions of thousand of dead Americans floating in Lake Mead.

Great thread you all have going here.

Did i say that???

Takeda Shingen · 09-27-12, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

Did i say that???

Quote:

With time you all might come to believe that Israel is a threat to world peace because it will be easer than dealing with bunch of crazy Muslims with nukes.
Ahmadinejad...

That's what it looks like.

MH · 09-27-12, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

That's what it looks like.

I did not mention holocaust here...just pointed out to some manipulation.

09-27-12, 03:44 PM	#19
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,717 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I think this report indicates something different. While Israel wanted to rally support over the past months, it did rally support indeed, but not against Iran, but against Israel. All this while Iran multiplied the number of centrifuges and is digging its program deeper and deeper into the mountains. I tend to think that Israel has no military means to reach them anymore without the US, and I also think that the US probably also cannot reach them anymore without using nukes in the megaton-range - and that is what even I have never suggested, I always talked of bunkerbusting only: softening up the soil over a subterranean installation by repeated hits with conventional bunker busters, hoping that this softening will add another couple of two or three meters for the main weapon to penetrate into the ground before it detonates. Formally, the US has abandoned the developement of socalled mini-nukes, bombs below the 5 kt-mark and by design intended for bunker busting. However, what thy formally announced, and what they really do, is two things. The problem is that any free-fall-bomb cannot penetreate any type of soil deeper than let'S say 12-13 meters. That is not enough to prevent a mini-nuke produzcing plenty of fallout, and deflecting the most of its blow not into the gorund to crack open a bunker, but into the empty air. Deeper penetration ranges of up to some 40 meters have been demonstrated - but only by rocket-motored projectiles on rails, travelling at I think 4000 mph or so. Now consider that already years ago it was reported that Iran had started to move its installations into mountain tunnels and super-hardened bunkers, up to 120 meters deep. 120 meters of granite, rock, and whatever mountains are made of, plus them clever engineers having certainly considered blast escape tunnels and so on. Then the real bunker begins: steel-concrete, build with massive knowledge last but not least from the West. Command-bunkers for Minuteman-missile silos were designed to withstand close-by detonations in the multi-megaton-range. Anyone here thinking you can impress them, damage, them, destroy them by using a conventional massive ordnance? Or former NORAD command in Cheyenne Mountain - taking it out by a conventional MOAB? Hardly. I think the West has overplayed his cards, and that now the time has run out. They are out of reach, that simple. If now you want to destroy these installations, one would need to do it from within, and that would meanb what probably is an impossible war: boots on the ground, invasion, spoecial commandos, infiltrating the basis, demolitioning them from within. Chances I give that for sufficient success: 1%. And that is optimistic, I think. I predict for the coming years that our wonderful leaders now will slowly start to softtalk on the issue, that they will lure us slowly into lending a nuclear Iran a hand as a sign of our good will, we will get familiarized with the prospect of nuclear weapons in Iran, and will be made to slowly accept and tolerate it. Over this year, there were some reports, that were almost overseen and only were minor in the news papers, but I got one of them confirmed by one former pro for whom I have worked in the early nineties. The one news said that the Turks have seriously started to prepare to implement a nuclear weapon program. The other said that the Mursi government has confirmed a re-u-turn that was made already by Mubarak. Egypt has had a nuclear weapon program in the 60s and until the early 70s, then shut it down, and Mubarak even rejected to get nukes from the falling-apart Soviet Union after the fall. But before the revolution reached Egypt, he has revoked the nuclear weapon program, and the new Mursi government in all secrecy has confirmed that decision. I think the race already has started, and Syria is known to have been trying as well before Israel struck it some years ago. Hey West, have fun everybody. You messed it up, now deal with the potentially self-destroying consequences. This nuclear arms race is a hundred times more dangerous, unpredictable and irrational, than the cold war ever was with the exception of Cuba at the height of the crisis. And no, I do not think that we will make it through once again in one piece. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-27-12, 04:34 PM	#24
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,717 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Regarding you: currently not. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-27-12, 02:19 PM	#16
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,565 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	If I had to chose I would say the article Vendor posted is correct-that's because I'm a 110 % non-violent person I would rather believe that Israel is getting soft and give Iran some time. Markus

09-27-12, 03:50 PM	#20
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I'm just praying that they don't take out the Edgar C. Hoover dam before we get a chance to locate it ourselves.