Japanese Embassy under attack by the Chinese

[Herr-Berbunch]

The 'Dont fly over our city' reminded me of the guy who painted on his roof something about telling the RAF where to go as his house was on a regular low-flying route.

Every possible flight that could do then went over his house in the months following.

I'd paint it on mine if I thought I'd get an increase in low flying.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

The size of China's nuclear arsenal? The one of only about 150-200 warheads? Considering that China's boomers have never even been to sea a 1st strike taking out their offensive missiles is still a possibility. Japan is also very interested in ABM, operating both the PAC-3 and SM-3. JAXA also has some very nice space launch vehicles that not only can be derived in to ICBMs but could put munitions in to orbit.

Yes, but any Japanese nuclear strike would have to be done with the support of the US, because a handful of warheads vs 200 warheads isn't going to work. Furthermore, all either side really needs to do to cripple the other, but in particular Japan, is HANE.

To be honest, even the possibility of war would cripple both sides economy, and both Japan and China have economies that are teetering on the edge anyway, Japans is circling around the toilet rim after the Tsunami, which is probably why both sides are making an issue of this island, to try and keep the populace distracted.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Every possible flight that could do then went over his house in the months following.

I love RAF humour.

[joea]

Well this posturing is schocking and unnecessary. On both sides, as Oberon pointed out there is still a worrying section fo the nationalist right wing in Japan that deny Japan's imperial wringdoing (found a fascinating clip on youtube that i hope to find again justifying the occupation of Korea)
As for China lovely of the government to keep stirring up this nationlist crud to divert people's attention from their own problems and the apparent government power sturggle going on. From enviromental issues to settling the Taiwan thing and some serious concerns with their economy.

[Skybird]

All sides - Taiwan, China, Japan - are driven by nationalist forces over this. All sides have risen maximum demands that practically exclude any compromise. No side can now move back even just one small step without losing face, and without pissing its nationalists as well as major parts of its "normal" population.

I currently do not see this standoff ending quickly or easily. Since also fishing grounds and resources play a role, and a chance for a tri-national cooperation in exploiting these is practically ruled out, and since further the US cannot play the honest broker since it is closely tied with Japan and Taiwan, we probably must get used to the idea that the sabre rattling in this part of the world will be daily routine from now on. And could turn into a hot incident as well.

[Red October1984]

What is the deal here?


No embassy is safe anymore.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

The 'Dont fly over our city' reminded me of the guy who painted on his roof something about telling the RAF where to go as his house was on a regular low-flying route.

Every possible flight that could do then went over his house in the months following.

I'd paint it on mine if I thought I'd get an increase in low flying.

You can always try what this guy did...

[soopaman2]

This kid takes the cake.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/20...ng-roof-google

If I was his dad I would make him clean it for turning my roof into a truck stop mens room.

(But laugh in private)

On a side note, the Brit article used the alternate word for a rooster in the article, you guys don't censor language like we do... I'm bitter.

[mookiemookie]

Gallery of photos from the protests: http://imgur.com/a/Y7oIp

[the_tyrant]

Not a really good deveopment

Mind you, the government is trying its best in supressing this kind of sentiment, but the stuff you read on the internet does not paint a rosy picture.

Just a few casual observations on the equavent of Subsim in Chinese (a military enthusiest forum, with a strong gaming componant focused on simulations)

First of all, the racism would be shocking to many of us here. You see lots of racist rants and whatnot against Japanese and Chinese minorities.

Than, the "collectivist" Chinese mentality starts to show. In western societies like the US, "national prestige" is not really highly valued, individual liberties are valued more highly. However, in times like these, you see how the majority would gladly sacrifice their own liberties for "national strength" (something you never hear in the west), sure, they might just be paying lip service, talking about it, but the fact that they are even willing to say it demonstrates a unique characteristic of the chinese mentality. (before someone says that they are paid government adgents, I know many of these guys personally, we game together)

Than, you see many opinions that have been long forgotten in the west start to surface in China. Hitler is interpreted to be a hero to the german people, and how the chinese government should go fascist (particularly shocking, as many of the guys I went to school with have become Hitler lovers). they even managed to go back more, people start digging around, and the ideologies of Cecil Rhodes, Otto Von Bismark, Robert Clive, and other 19th century colonial era politicians start coming back.

Some highlights include (roughly translated):

"Through starving Paris, Otto Von Bismark managed to secure Alsace-Lorraine. Starving Tokyo is the one and only effective technique for us to secure a victory against Japan"

"The conquest of Africa allowed the Europeans to secure global dominance, and the loss of Africa proved to be their downfall. Instead of caving into the demands of African revolutionaries, an iron fist in the colonies would have proved to be an effective method for insuring european dominance"

"At the battle of Plassy, the East Indian Company guranteed themselves sustainable and continueous growth through the taxation of the Indian people. Why can't the the central government establish the 'East Japan Company' to insure economic growth through the exploitation of Japan?"

"The decline of the west started when westerners started believing in 'democracy' and 'equality'. National power is the no. 1 priority for any nation, only than can we insure our dominance over Japan."

"Alexander burned down Persepolis to avenge the invasion of Greece by the Persians, we should burn down Kyoto to avenge the second world war"

Can you even find pro imperialist people in Europe? I'm pretty sure Clive and Hastings are no longer British national heros. I also find it ironic that the "Hun Speech" is now commonly quoted in China.

finally, anything can be faked in china, not just watches and TVs, but even speeches now.

First and foremost, I would like to directly speak of matters of importance. I would like to cut out all the frivolities and instead focus on content of utter importance. Manners and ceremony cannot be upheld in this moment of national importance, and I must proceed to explain recent controversies.
I must apologize for lying towards her majesty and the parliament. The rumours regarding Cape Colony and the South African Company that have been circulating for some time are true, to different extents. The economic viability of her majesty***8217;s African holdings is not nearly as high as I have claimed them to be. And although I must disappoint those who have trusted and defended me, I shall confirm that I did willingly falsify content in a series of reports regarding the viability of certain African regions. For those who intend to attack me, I shall willingly bear the blunt of those attacks. However, in the future, when the benefits have become common knowledge, and my true motive understood; my name and honor shall be restored.
It is not for fame, fortune, or position that I have falsified or manipulated findings presented in the reports. It is for the prestige and national standing of Britannia. Nowhere have I ever attempted to gain any personal profit from the government actions that were a result of the reports. Nor did I ever intend so.
Britain***8217;s colonies are the main cause for her prestigious standing in the global community of nations. It is the colonies that fills the Frenchman with jealousy, and forces the Spaniard to hang his head in shame. Britain***8217;s overseas territories allows the royal navy to roam the seas with impunity, knowing that safe harbour is only a few days sail away.
Ever since the renaissance, the value of overseas holdings has never been significantly doubted; colonial holdings were always cherished and valued. However, there is a recent troubling sign. Supporters of the liberal party have openly attacked colonialism itself, not the workings of the colonial office, but the very concept of colonialism.
Yet, resources cannot be diverted from colonial pursuits. Many of Britain***8217;s holdings are in a perilous state, with insurgencies that threaten the control of her majesty***8217;s government. We must not forget the disaster of 1783, and how the ever scheming French attempted to humiliate Britannia in its aftermath.
Liberal MPs that campaign for the abandonment of colonial pursuits have ulterior motives. They have no regard about the disgrace and humiliation such an action would bring to the empire; only popular support can pique their interest, and they wish to cut colonial spending in order to create employment, or so they claim. This is unacceptable. Employment is of little concern for the empire. The colonial service is always in need of good men, and it has the potential to provide employment for millions of Englishmen in a genteel career.
In one hundred years, the British legacy shall be fully felt throughout the world. Railroad shall span from the Cape to Cairo, India shall produce more steel than the United States, and our fleet shall roam the seas, from harbours around the world. America shall come to us on their knees, begging to return to the empire.
The accusations of treason no longer matter for me; I am but a man of little importance in the grand scheme of things. But if the poisoned tongues of the liberals take hold, we might as well just hand our empire to the Germans. The fate of Britannia is closely linked with that of its colonies. The loss of her colonies shall mark her decline.

Not gonna lie, this fake speech by supposedly by "Cecil Rhodes" was pretty well done, a major cut above the "Engrish" we have come to expect. The original post have unfortunately been deleted, but there were lots of people agreeing with it before someone pointed out that it was a fake.

[TwoGamers]

Problem with china is army size and the fact they are communist. I personally think America should not get involved, especially in the current economic situation.

[Oberon]

China as it stands at the moment is a porcelain (or perhaps terracotta? ) state, it looks beautiful and it looks impressive, but if you kick it hard enough it will fall apart (yes, I know Hitler said the same about the Soviet Union). The Chinese economy is linked massively to trade, it's thrived on being the cheapest producer of...well...just about anything. However, global trade has slowed since the economic crisis, and whilst China was originally sheltered from it, they are now feeling the bite. Massive housing projects lie empty, growth is down and political corruption and turmoil is a constant problem.
The aim of the new five year plan is, I do believe, to try to balance out the Chinese economy, by investing internally so that the Chinese people buy the goods that China currently exports, so that the PRC is not so dependent on exporting goods to other countries to survive. However, whether or not the PRC has done this in time is debatable.
The PRC also has a huge social problem, there is a massive divide between the societies in the coastal cities and the societies in the rural villages. In the cities you have TV, internet, shops and clean (ish) water. In the rural villages, you have the village pump, the village cow and if you're lucky, a radio. Naturally this means that most young Chinese head for the cities at the first opportunity, which means eventually there's going to be a rural crisis of food, and a urban crisis of living space.
There are lots of problems facing the PRC in the next few decades, and an armed conflict is only going to make them worse, which is why I think the PRC will continue to use soft power to maneuver itself into a favourable position in Asia. It already has the edge over many of its neighbours, Japan included, so why would it need to resort to armed conflict?
No, this whole island debacle is merely to keep the peoples minds off the economy and the political problems that have beset the PRC, after all, the Chinese version of twitter has censored searches for 'Xi Jinping' at the moment, but you can bet they haven't censored searches for 'Diaoyu'
It's a bit like Argentina at the moment with the Falklands, a lot of hot air and noise. Perhaps there might be a small clash between coast guard vessels in the near future, I can see the PRC letting it escalate that far, but in terms of an actual full on armed conflict with Japan...nah, ain't going to happen, not in this decade anyway.

In other news, the American Chinese in San Francisco have apparently got into the swing of things with their own protests in support of the PRC, a 21 year old man has been killed by surging mobs in China, and another man faces a lifetime of paralysis after he was dragged from his Japanese made car and beaten by an angry mob. However, the mood online in China is beginning to turn slightly as some Chinese question the wisdom of destroying their own cities in protest over some rocks...although they do not question the rocks true Chinese heritage.

[joea]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

Than, you see many opinions that have been long forgotten in the west start to surface in China. Hitler is interpreted to be a hero to the german people, and how the chinese government should go fascist (particularly shocking, as many of the guys I went to school with have become Hitler lovers). they even managed to go back more, people start digging around, and the ideologies of Cecil Rhodes, Otto Von Bismark, Robert Clive, and other 19th century colonial era politicians start coming back.

This is shocking and very sad.

Especially since I met a few Chinese people who are decent - one roomate in student res in particular who came here to study international law at my institute in Geneva. Great fellow, proud to be Chinese and a friend. However, even he got angry when the subject of the atomic bombs was brought up-he felt Japan deserved it after what was done to his country, and he had family involved, his grandfather was almost shot for example as he worked as an engineer at a Shanghai factory and forgot he had a spare part in his pocket that was found by a Japanese soldier.

I can sort of understand his frustration in that quite a few people outside of East Asia are very ignorant of what the Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, and others went through and how their deaths far exceeded those of Japan even taking into account radiation sickness (at least the stats I've seen). I can even sort of understand his thinking Japan deserved the nukes (more than say an American saying Japan deserved the nukes for Pearl Harbor).

However given that, I must wonder about this admiration for Hitler, to his credit my roomate did not admire Hitler and knew very well about the holocaust and how the Allies helped-but they are not going to get much sympathy from the west if they go this far-it looks like they are becoming the new bully and doing what they claim others did to them in the past.

The funny thing is I never hear of any such resentment by say Russians against modern Germans (more against Americans), perhaps because they (well the Soviets) raised the flag on the Reichstag while end of the Pacific war was on the USS Missouri.

An interesting contrast with a Filipino friend and former colleague whose father had a long and distinguished career in the foreign service in the governemnt of the Phillipines when they gained their independence. I understand he had been a person of note before the war (I think serving in the administration preparing for planned independence in 1945) when the Japanese invaded. He joined the US-backed guerrila forces fighting against Japan. His wife (who had 10 kids) had to face death when Japanese troops showed up at the door when this fellow had first left demanding information as to his wherabouts, she refused and a servant was grabbed, had gasoline poured over her and set on fire. Then the family was rounded up and shipped off to a camp-but they survived. The father was taken prisioner in any case and treated much worse but also survived.

After the war guess what one of his first postings was? Ambassador to Japan. My friend's mother did not want to go but they did and they ended up loving the place, he even went back to teach English before he followed his folks to Geneva and got into business.

They don't forget but they have forgiven.

[the_tyrant]

WA really bad development

Japanese firms have suspended operations
http://www.zdnet.com/cn/japanese-fir...na-7000004343/

[Jimbuna]

Like some other wars in the past...it starts with trade disputes

Not being overly serious here before anyone takes a hissy fit.