I hear there's this new Silent Hunter game...

[SilentOtto]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

No, I don't think that's accurate. The F2P games are designed to be engaging and fun. If that happens to be the case for you, then you get your money's worth. A traditional subsim could be called a "time-sink" as easily, after all, you spend hours when you play it grinding our convoy attacks. Did you enjoy World of Tanks? I had not really paid much attention to it before now. I hear it is very successful.

Yea I have to agree that any good game is a time sink too but not in the way this grinding games are... I mean, you can play a career in SHIV but it's not like you will spend your time just to get a better weapon, or other piece of equipment... Sims are good to play with what you have, and I love doing some patrols on S-boats or Type-II from time to time.

The issue I raised is because for all I have known, these F2P games are really a money sink in that if you want to be competitive on them you have to spend a lot of money (or what to me, with three kids and in these times of crisis, is a lot of money for a game... like, 20 or 30 euros a month). And if you want to be in the top players, even more.

Of course they'll say that most of the stuff can be grinded for, yea if you have unlimited supplies of time, and no life at all. So they tickle your weaknesses and you end up paying, paying and paying some more.

About WoT, I mostly agree with what RAM says, it is a fun and exciting game with awesome flaws. Was fun for me until I got quite good at it, and joined a clan, and then is when the fun went away... you try to be good, you have to grind grind grind and pay pay pay. I quit the game because of that, it felt like a crack addiction. Maybe its just my personality! But when I took a look at my paypal logs, I saw I had spent in a year more than 300eur in that game!!! I was so shocked you wouldnt believe it. That's not my idea of what you should pay for a game, but hey, microtransactions are like that, you don't feel the 10eur now, 10eur next week, oh I don't want to spend another week grinding just to get the new tracks for this tank, without the tracks I can't use the gun I already unlocked... without the gun I am not effective at all at this level... oh ok I can afford 10 more euros, can't I? Oh, cool now I have the new gun! But next week it will be the same... and the next after. And when you get to level 10 and have the greatest tanks, oh well they introduce a new system which "freezes" your tanks when you are destroyed in battle... so you have to wait another week before you can help your clanmates. Oh, but there is a solution, yea, start the grind all over again with another nation... Hateful.

So imagine my thoughts, when I come back to sub sims, my ever beloved games, only to find that Ubi's next move is not a sequel (should we call it fix?) for SHV, oh no, it's a new F2P online game. That felt so bad, after my WoT experience, that I can't explain. Of course it's just the way I feel, they are a company, want to make money, and you run a website and have to try your best to manage this old farts community. But I know I won't be touching that thing with a 10 foot pole. I still hope we can get something else running as I have been saying around. And I understand I shouldnt be ranting and spilling my anger and pain in this part of the forum, which should be to praise the new online sensation...

But now I let it all out, won't happen again, I'll stay in the old farts section from now on!

[Gezoes]

If you put 300+ euro's in WoT, and reading the rest of your post, I think that would be best yes. No offence, but I do think you have a slight problem there.

[SilentOtto]

Thanks for caring... :P

As I said above, I've been clean for a couple of months. But I tell you, among the people who were top-ish in that game, I wasn't one of the big spenders at all. Their target is guys on their 30s, with some good job of work, who spend between 500-1200 eur a year on the game. You can buy the so-called "gold ammo" which gives you a totally unfair advantage since it's able to penetrate most tanks' armor even if your vehicle is inferior.

My problem there was that I'm a stat whore (can I say this uncle Steve? pretty please?) and the only way to improve your stats is play well and PAY.

And now, you've made me post again in this thread where I promised uncle Neal I wouldn't post again!

[Gezoes]

Originally Posted by SilentOtto

Thanks for caring... :P

As I said above, I've been clean for a couple of months. But I tell you, among the people who were top-ish in that game, I wasn't one of the big spenders at all. Their target is guys on their 30s, with some good job of work, who spend between 500-1200 eur a year on the game. You can buy the so-called "gold ammo" which gives you a totally unfair advantage since it's able to penetrate most tanks' armor even if your vehicle is inferior.

My problem there was that I'm a stat whore (can I say this uncle Steve? pretty please?) and the only way to improve your stats is play well and PAY.

And now, you've made me post again in this thread where I promised uncle Neal I wouldn't post again!

Sorry 'bout that. Don't worry, I called Neal 'Neil' recently, which undoubtedly delayed his review. So I will be keelhauled a wee bit sooner than you

I guess I'm an oldfashioned guy with a rabid sense of people trying to get me to buy things. I spent about 31 euro's on a Type and 10 euro's for some gold change. Games used to cost about 40 euro's, today 60 at least, so that would be the absolute limit. I've played WoT since the closed beta.

My stats are good, and I have a garage ranging from 2 - tier 9. The one thing compensates the other. I never use gold ammo. Also, I have a few vehicles where I win about 65% of my games. I have won 54% overall, which doesn't make me among the best, far from it. But maintaining 54% in random games, with some medals that will raise an eyebrow or two, is pretty good.

I often get invites, but I always decline. I hate clans. Always something. Given, a new tank takes a lot longer with me, but in the meantime I gather free XP which goes towards the best gun on purchase of the tank.

You don't need gold at all. But you're right, above the 60% overall people tend to throw one bucket after the other into the game, and expect others to do the same. Sorry to hear you got dragged into that, but hey, you came out of it

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by SilentOtto

Yea I have to agree that any good game is a time sink too but not in the way this grinding games are... I mean, you can play a career in SHIV but it's not like you will spend your time just to get a better weapon, or other piece of equipment... Sims are good to play with what you have, and I love doing some patrols on S-boats or Type-II from time to time.

The issue I raised is because for all I have known, these F2P games are really a money sink in that if you want to be competitive on them you have to spend a lot of money (or what to me, with three kids and in these times of crisis, is a lot of money for a game... like, 20 or 30 euros a month). And if you want to be in the top players, even more.

Of course they'll say that most of the stuff can be grinded for, yea if you have unlimited supplies of time, and no life at all. So they tickle your weaknesses and you end up paying, paying and paying some more.

About WoT, I mostly agree with what RAM says, it is a fun and exciting game with awesome flaws. Was fun for me until I got quite good at it, and joined a clan, and then is when the fun went away... you try to be good, you have to grind grind grind and pay pay pay. I quit the game because of that, it felt like a crack addiction. Maybe its just my personality! But when I took a look at my paypal logs, I saw I had spent in a year more than 300eur in that game!!! I was so shocked you wouldnt believe it. That's not my idea of what you should pay for a game, but hey, microtransactions are like that, you don't feel the 10eur now, 10eur next week, oh I don't want to spend another week grinding just to get the new tracks for this tank, without the tracks I can't use the gun I already unlocked... without the gun I am not effective at all at this level... oh ok I can afford 10 more euros, can't I? Oh, cool now I have the new gun! But next week it will be the same... and the next after. And when you get to level 10 and have the greatest tanks, oh well they introduce a new system which "freezes" your tanks when you are destroyed in battle... so you have to wait another week before you can help your clanmates. Oh, but there is a solution, yea, start the grind all over again with another nation... Hateful.

So imagine my thoughts, when I come back to sub sims, my ever beloved games, only to find that Ubi's next move is not a sequel (should we call it fix?) for SHV, oh no, it's a new F2P online game. That felt so bad, after my WoT experience, that I can't explain. Of course it's just the way I feel, they are a company, want to make money, and you run a website and have to try your best to manage this old farts community. But I know I won't be touching that thing with a 10 foot pole. I still hope we can get something else running as I have been saying around. And I understand I shouldnt be ranting and spilling my anger and pain in this part of the forum, which should be to praise the new online sensation...

But now I let it all out, won't happen again, I'll stay in the old farts section from now on!

Hey, Otto, I think your statement is a fair analysis of F2P games, and incremental costs. I really like it when someone makes a point in a reasonable fashion, pointing things out like you have done.

Yes, they are a company and all companies strive to make money, people need to eat. I think what you said is fair; I also have to say, if someone enjoys the game, they make the decision how much to spend on it. 300 Euros is too much for me, no doubt. Depending on how much I play and if I can get into it, I could see spending as much or more than a boxed game. But I would shy away from continuing to pay unless this was a new game sensation I could not live without. Even then, it's all up to me to turn loose any $$$.