Are people's objecting to an online subsim per se, or merely Ubi's "effort" here?

Onkel Neal · 06-08-12, 08:23 AM

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He gave a list, and AOD, which was made with no community input, is still widely regarded as the best sumsim of all time.

OMG, a Sailor Steve typo, and on a mission-critical word, no less. Get yer cameras, fellas!

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Most simmers tend to agree that AOTD is the best U-Boat sim ever, but ironically as a simulator it is in fact less complex than SH3 or SH5.

Yes, it is less complex than SH3/SH4/SH5. As awesome as Aces is/was, I don't see how anyone can objectively say it is better than SH3 or SH4. There's some serious nostalgia going on here.

AOD is still widely regarded as the best subsim of its time. There may be people who say best of all time, I can't take that seriously.

Julhelm · 06-08-12, 09:26 AM

Because 'more complex' doesn't always equal 'better'?

I've been playing a lot of SH1 lately, and I honestly find it objectively better than SH4. About the only things that aren't better in it are the sea graphics and the map tools. And Red Storm Rising does a lot of things better than Sub Command or Dangerous Waters, despite the almost complete technical realism of the latter. Both of these decades-old titles still hold up as well as back then in terms of playability so it isn't all down to nostalgia.

Carthaginian · 06-08-12, 01:14 PM

Aces of the Deep

There has never been a better sub sim, never been one that had all the necessary elements without all the clutter. Though out of nostalgia, I have to say that Silent Service II is the all-time most memorable... well, it was Aces of the Deep that first made me feel like I was in a tiny metal tube hundreds of feet under water, waiting on my fate. You had every major decision of a sub skipper in your hands. You had all the major technical innovations represented. Everything was there without the headaches.

SH4, of all the later sub sims, comes the closest to this feel.

And there has NEVER been a better nuclear sub sim than Red Storm Rising.
In fact, for my money, there has simply never been another; the first was the best and the only one you need.

Sailor Steve · 06-08-12, 01:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

OMG, a Sailor Steve typo, and on a mission-critical word, no less. Get yer cameras, fellas!

I make typos all the time. Sometimes I catch them, sometimes I don't. As I've repeated countless times, my problem is never with mistakes people make, but with actual abuse of the language by people who should know better. When Frau Kaleun caught me using 'you're' when I meant 'your'? Now there was a catch!

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Yes, it is less complex than SH3/SH4/SH5. As awesome as Aces is/was, I don't see how anyone can objectively say it is better than SH3 or SH4. There's some serious nostalgia going on here.

AOD is still widely regarded as the best subsim of its time. There may be people who say best of all time, I can't take that seriously.

I specifically mentioned the gameplay, which included wolfpacks and escorts that could be highly intelligent or phenomenally stupid, and anything in between. The gameplay also included evasion by bottoming the boat and realistic fog which limited both u-boat and escort vision. SH3 and SH4 have none of those, and all the mods in the world haven't helped. That said, I prefer the newer games just for the feel, part of which involves graphics and some of which involves sound.

makman94 · 06-10-12, 01:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Yes, it is less complex than SH3/SH4/SH5. As awesome as Aces is/was, I don't see how anyone can objectively say it is better than SH3 or SH4. There's some serious nostalgia going on here.

AOD is still widely regarded as the best subsim of its time. There may be people who say best of all time, I can't take that seriously.

yes Neal...imo it is ...'nostalgia' ! a nostalgia of pure sub sims.
are the sh3/sh4/sh5 really 'complex' ? i don't think so.
the development of sub simulations stopped at sh2. from that day till today ,nothing added or developed-improved further on simulation elements in sh3,sh4 or sh5 (on the contrary ...some elements - without obvious reason - just ...vanished and a huge pack of....bugs added). sh3 or sh4 or sh5 are way far from calling them as 'sims'.
the sim fans are waiting more than 11 years for a real sim to come out(SH2 was released in November 2001 and 688i released in 1997). the best sim ,imo, was the 688i (which was sligthly improved and refreshed a little bit at DW) and i am really hoping these brilliant dev teams (sh1-sh2 dev or 688i dev teams) to show up again on stage with a u-boat sim.

as ,for all these about the 'dead sim market' that i am reading from time to time,...my opinion is that are not valid.think about it...if,indeed, was dead then there wouldn't be so many ,and very VERY good, sims for airplanes.people really like the serious sims and wants them.
companies like ubi just follow the fast road to get some money ...they don't care if the product will be good or not .all that matters for them is the product to be 'ready' in their time schedule and thats all.
there will be a real sub sim at future , i am sure of it ! when ? i don't know...i am just waiting !

TorpX · 06-11-12, 10:51 PM

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Originally Posted by makman94

as ,for all these about the 'dead sim market' that i am reading from time to time,...my opinion is that are not valid.think about it...if,indeed, was dead then there wouldn't be so many ,and very VERY good, sims for airplanes.people really like the serious sims and wants them.
companies like ubi just follow the fast road to get some money ...they don't care if the product will be good or not .all that matters for them is the product to be 'ready' in their time schedule and thats all.
there will be a real sub sim at future , i am sure of it ! when ? i don't know...i am just waiting !

+1

I am waiting too.

I haven't tried SHO, and have little desire to. It is only interesting to me insofar as it provides a window into Ubisoft's "thinking". Sadly, it seems to suggest Ubi is simply unable or unwilling to make a good subsim.

I think the next real subsim will not come from Ubisoft.

06-08-12, 09:26 AM	#2
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 693 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	Because 'more complex' doesn't always equal 'better'? I've been playing a lot of SH1 lately, and I honestly find it objectively better than SH4. About the only things that aren't better in it are the sea graphics and the map tools. And Red Storm Rising does a lot of things better than Sub Command or Dangerous Waters, despite the almost complete technical realism of the latter. Both of these decades-old titles still hold up as well as back then in terms of playability so it isn't all down to nostalgia.

06-08-12, 01:14 PM	#3
Carthaginian Loader Join Date: May 2012 Location: Daphne, Alabama, C.S.A. Posts: 83 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Aces of the Deep There has never been a better sub sim, never been one that had all the necessary elements without all the clutter. Though out of nostalgia, I have to say that Silent Service II is the all-time most memorable... well, it was Aces of the Deep that first made me feel like I was in a tiny metal tube hundreds of feet under water, waiting on my fate. You had every major decision of a sub skipper in your hands. You had all the major technical innovations represented. Everything was there without the headaches. SH4, of all the later sub sims, comes the closest to this feel. And there has NEVER been a better nuclear sub sim than Red Storm Rising. In fact, for my money, there has simply never been another; the first was the best and the only one you need.