Happy War of 1812 Day.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

.. America won that war hands down, no question, no argument.

Let me see if I understand this correctly.... the U.S. tried to invade Canada and failed miserably, even with overwhelming superiority, even losing the upper Mississippi region in the process all the way down to Missouri....then wound up fighting a desparate defensive battle to save New Orleans which turned out to be after the peace treaty had been signed anyway...and YOU WON !?!?

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Let me see if I understand this correctly.... the U.S. tried to invade Canada and failed miserably, even with overwhelming superiority, even losing the upper Mississippi region in the process all the way down to Missouri....then wound up fighting a desparate defensive battle to save New Orleans which turned out to be after the peace treaty had been signed anyway...and YOU WON !?!?

it's the magic of being american

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

it's the magic of being american

Well the British forces also where not aware that the treaty had been accepted so the Battle of New Orleans was not a miscommunication the treaty was not ratified by the Senate until February 16, 1815 the battle occurred on January 8, 1815. They did not have instant communication back in those days after all.

The British had already ratified it but until the other side does so as well the conflict is still on.There where troops in WWI that died just hours before the end. In those days the victor almost always got to keep any lands gained in battle so if the US had just allowed the British to take New Orleans they would have kept it more than likely.

In those days the victor almost always got to keep any lands gained in battle so if the US had just allowed the British to take New Orleans they would have kept it more than likely.

In those days the parties reached an agreement which settled the claims, who got to keep what from which battle or no battle was in the terms they negotiated and there certainly wasn't an "almost always" in those times as any treaty from then will show

[August]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Let me see if I understand this correctly.... the U.S. tried to invade Canada and failed miserably, even with overwhelming superiority, even losing the upper Mississippi region in the process all the way down to Missouri....then wound up fighting a desparate defensive battle to save New Orleans which turned out to be after the peace treaty had been signed anyway...and YOU WON !?!?

You guys stopped illegally boarding our ships and kidnapping our sailors and you stopped getting the Indians to raid our frontier homesteads.

That's a win in my book.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by August

You guys stopped illegally boarding our ships and kidnapping our sailors and you stopped getting the Indians to raid our frontier homesteads.

That's a win in my book.

He's got a point.

We may have not accomplished what we set out to do initially. But impression did stop. And was a huge part of our grievances.

It seemed after we kicked your asses in 1776-78, you still felt the need to try to enslave us. That is (in modern terms) called "butthurt"

Taking advantage of our weak navy is so manly. (edit: Best navy in the world versus the newest nation with one maybe 2 shipyards) We did great IMHO

I welcome you to try now, we won't be as easy as the Falklands.
(most of us are armed today)

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

He's got a point.

Taking advantage of our weak navy is so manly. (edit: Best navy in the world versus the newest nation with one maybe 2 shipyards) We did great IMHO

You do realize that Royal Navy was much more heavily concerned with the French Navy during this time period and the time period leading up to The War of 1812.So it was not as David vs. Goliath as you claim.The US Navy was not facing the entire Royal Navy.The US Navy won some naval battles but also got soundly stomped in others and generally speaking both navies performed fairly well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Third_Coalition Edit: I meant this link;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars

Of 41ish naval battles the US won 24 the UK won 13 though if you read of the numbers involved in each battle several where very much in one side or the others favor(no wonder they won) many where a single ship vs. a single ship as well.Both sides also won battles in which the odds where greatly stacked against them as well. I would say that both the US Navy and the Royal Navy gave pretty good account of themselves all things considered.

Read about each one here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...he_War_of_1812

What is your opinion?after you read about each battle of course.

[August]

The Canadians like to display a lot of national pride for repelling the Yankee hordes but the truth is that we didn't go to war over Canada. If the British weren't kidnapping our citizens and pushing the Indians into raiding our frontier we never would have invaded. That was just a way of waging war against England. A military excursion against assets that we could get at. We certainly weren't going to land an army in Liverpool. Not like we could have held either if we had though.

No, we won the war of 1812 by surviving it intact. We bloodied the nose of the premier military power of the age and we got away with it. We forced them to respect our flag and our sovereignty. That is victory.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by August

No, we won the war of 1812 by surviving it intact. We bloodied the nose of the premier military power of the age and we got away with it. We forced them to respect our flag and our sovereignty. That is victory.

ex post facto rationalisations. Whatever grievances the US had against Britain, the US declared war and planned to seize Canada. Not only did they not succeed, they wound up fighting defensive battles just to avoid losing chunks of their own territory. Only Americans would see this as a victory.

[August]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

ex post facto rationalisations. Whatever grievances the US had against Britain, the US declared war and planned to seize Canada. Not only did they not succeed, they wound up fighting defensive battles just to avoid losing chunks of their own territory. Only Americans would see this as a victory.

Hmm, well the US's reasons for going to war against England in 1812 are well documented and existed long before the fact. Canada was an ancillary objective at best. Heck William Hull invaded with less than a 1000 untrained militia. That's hardly a serious attempt at capturing and holding such a huge territory. The Brits took almost 5000 professional troops to burn Washington and even then they had to beat feet back to their ships before we bumbled our way into cutting them off.