Gay marriage ban passes in NC

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

There can still be joint ownership without marriage.

If your friend dies and leaves all his money to you the government will take a large share. If you are married you will get it all. That's one of the things they are asking for and you want to deny them.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

If your friend dies and leaves all his money to you the government will take a large share. If you are married you will get it all. That's one of the things they are asking for and you want to deny them.

Uhm, that's just not true Steve and i'm kind of surprised that you'd accuse me of such a thing. Perhaps you have forgotten that I have repeatedly said in both this and other similar threads that I have no problem with Civil Unions which were created for that very reason.

Oh and BTW he's joint owner of the land. He pays nothing when I die except maybe another Land Management Plan which we have to do every 10 years anyway.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

Uhm, that's just not true Steve and i'm kind of surprised that you'd accuse me of such a thing.

Exactly where did I accuse you of anything? Certainly not in the statement you quoted. You seem to reach a point in every debate where you attempt to make it personal by accusing everyone who disagrees with you of attacking you. I've been very careful to do no such thing.

As for civil unions, they are not the same as marriage in everything but name. In fact there seem to be very great differences.
http://www.factcheck.org/what_is_a_civil_union.html

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Exactly where did I accuse you of anything?

Right here:

you want to deny them

That sounded like an accusation to me. Can you show where I said I want to deny gays inheritance rights?

You seem to reach a point in every debate where you attempt to make it personal by accusing everyone who disagrees with you of attacking you.

I get called a bigot, repeatedly, and *I'm* the one making things personal? That's just rich.

I've been very careful to do no such thing.

I never said that you're attacking me. I said you're accusing me of something I never said and that I was kind of surprised that you'd do it. Sorry if you think that's getting personal.

[CaptainHaplo]

Relax August - I am the bigot here - I am one who voted for the amendment so by their definition I must be a bigot.

Never mind that "team R" offered at one point to codify civil unions and make them equal to in all respects to marriage. Never mind that this has only come because the gay lobby refused to accept ANYTHING short of their demands. Of course, the gay lobby wants you to think of this as "discrimination" by a bunch of "religious bigots" - so don't google "Church sued over gay marriage" because facts show that gay activists have been trying to FORCE religious institutions to accept gay marriage through the courts since at least 2007.....

The reality is that the homosexual activists pushed way too hard - and finally the rest of society - at least in NC - got sick of it and decided to push back. So now they scream "its not fair".

So Mookie, Bilge and whoever else - go ahead and call me a bigot all while claiming I am treating people unfair because they can still have every single "benefit" of a married couple except one.

Live together? Check
Share finances? Check
Leave inheritance? Check
Medical decisions and visitation? Check
Get a state certificate that says married? Nope

Cry me a river.....

[August]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Relax August - I am the bigot here - I am one who voted for the amendment so by their definition I must be a bigot.

Oh i'm completely relaxed, although several folks on the other side of this argument seem to be getting pretty hot under the collar. It's actually pretty funny to read.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

Right here:

That sounded like an accusation to me. Can you show where I said I want to deny gays inheritance rights?

You've openly admitted you want them denied the right to be married, and the benefits that go with it. I didn't accuse you of anything you didn't say yourself.

I get called a bigot, repeatedly, and *I'm* the one making things personal? That's just rich.

I've seen people using a broad brush and using "bigot" as a general term for everyone who would deny these rights. I don't think in those terms, but you do seem to enjoy making it about you.

I never said that you're attacking me. I said you're accusing me of something I never said and that I was kind of surprised that you'd do it. Sorry if you think that's getting personal.

I didn't say you were getting personal. I said that sooner or later you make every argument about yourself, and accuse others of making it personal.

Originally Posted by August

Oh i'm completely relaxed, although several folks on the other side of this argument seem to be getting pretty hot under the collar. It's actually pretty funny to read.

I'm not sure who that would be. From an objective viewpoint your responses have been no more and no less antagonistic that your opponents. You come across as just as hot as you think they do.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Never mind that "team R" offered at one point to codify civil unions and make them equal to in all respects to marriage. Never mind that this has only come because the gay lobby refused to accept ANYTHING short of their demands. Of course, the gay lobby wants you to think of this as "discrimination" by a bunch of "religious bigots" - so don't google "Church sued over gay marriage" because facts show that gay activists have been trying to FORCE religious institutions to accept gay marriage through the courts since at least 2007.....

The reality is that the homosexual activists pushed way too hard - and finally the rest of society - at least in NC - got sick of it and decided to push back. So now they scream "its not fair".

so, in other words, uppity Gays were not willing to accept whatever second class status was cobbled together, so "y'all" decided to put the Gays back in their place by stripping away ALL their rights.

Good call, very mature.

[Bilge_Rat]

apparently, allowing gay marriage will bring about the destruction of society as we know it...

When marriage ceases to have its historic meaning and understanding, over time fewer and fewer people will marry. We will have an inevitable increase in children born out of wedlock, an increase in fatherlessness, a resulting increase in female and child poverty, and a higher incidence of all the documented social ills associated with children being raised in a home without their married biological parents.

http://www.voteformarriagenc.com/threat/

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Live together? Check
Share finances? Check
Leave inheritance? Check
Medical decisions and visitation? Check
Get a state certificate that says married? Nope

Medical decisions are not allowable if I remember correctly. You might recall Leovampire here at Subsim? His partner was not legally able to make any decisions medically for Leovampire. ICU in most hospitals are family only visitation.

The state certificate allows two things:
1. Noted married
2. Marriage tax penalty.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

You might recall Leovampire here at Subsim? His partner was not legally able to make any decisions medically for Leovampire. ICU in most hospitals are family only visitation.

I do indeed remember Leo, may he rest in peace.
If memory serves, he lived in the northern part of the US. DE,CT - something like that. I can't speak for that state or its laws. However, I would suspect that no medical power of attorney was in place.

Its important to remember - we are talking NC here - not anywhere else.
If Leo had been in NC - now or prior to this amendment - he would have had the right to do a medical power of attorney - and that would have allowed his partner to visit him and make decisions on his behalf regarding his care.

It is all too easy to point to other cases - in other places - and equate them to what has occured in NC. However, that fails to account for the fact that different states have different laws. NC is clear on what it does not allow - and that is "marriage". Anything else is available.

You bring up the marriage tax penalty. Why would someone want to incur an extra penalty? If homosexuals REALLY want to pay more in taxes - they can still donate to the state tax office. Though there is some discussion as to whether the penalty still exits.

Literally AVG - the ONLY thing they can't do in NC is get a marriage license in NC. Yes - they might have to do paperwork to get the same legal authority - but they would have to do paperwork to get married. Its not about the "right" - its about making everyone else accept their view.

I will say it again - google "church sued over gay marraige" and do a little research. Gay activists have been suing private citizens of religious conviction and churches trying to force them to "accomodate" gay weddings against their religious beliefs.

[Jimbuna]

Marriage, for civil purposes, is the lawful union of two persons to the exclusion of all others.

It is recognized that officials of religious groups are free to refuse to perform marriages that are not in accordance with their religious beliefs.

For greater certainty, no person or organization shall be deprived of any benefit, or be subject to any obligation or sanction, under any law of the Parliament of Canada solely by reason of their exercise, in respect of marriage between persons of the same sex, of the freedom of conscience and religion guaranteed under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms or the expression of their beliefs in respect of marriage as the union of a man and woman to the exclusion of all others based on that guaranteed freedom.

For greater certainty, a marriage is not void or voidable by reason only that the spouses are of the same sex.

Pretty much how it is in the UK as far as I am aware.