Silent Hunter Online

drEaPer · 05-09-12, 09:09 AM

Thats the challenge of adressing the target audience in the right manner.
Just compare asian games with western games. Thats why this does not make F2P a bad concept by itself just for being F2P.

Something that comes to my mind: When I played Dungeons & Dragons Online, it had a fine approach that seemed fair and worked well.

-Some of the dungeons you could enter with your group were free. Alot others were paycontent. Once payed, you could play them as much as you wanted.

-The difficulty of the dungeons was perfectly fine for a standard party. It was a bit of a challenge, yet very do-able.

-If you screwed up, you could instantly buy health potions of mana potions in the shop, to get you out of hopeless situations.

-> Some content is buyable that is unlocked permanently and can be enjoyed just like a standard game. Some content is convinience only, that I only needed if I was actually failing the game. Without those added "pay consumables" I would have had to restart the dungeon.

For me, it was a fair and well thought out approach of making money, instead of charging subscription fees (online server based games always have running costs). I actually stopped my subscription, switched the game to the F2P mode, payed like 50 bucks for all the dungeons and basically owned the content for the lifetime of the game.
If I had kept the subscription based access, my costs for playing the game would have exceeded that sum by far until now.

If there is no incentive to spend money, the game would not be available to you at all, since there would be no return of investment or money to cover the costs for server, traffic, live/support teams etc.

Its a thin line where one thinks it starts being a "rip off" or a "fair approach". Though its not F2P by itself that is the problem.

Gandalfi2005 · 05-09-12, 10:08 AM

Maybe something for the office, when im bored like today

Jimbuna · 05-09-12, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalfi2005

Maybe something for the office, when im bored like today

At best.....I suspect

Sailor Steve · 05-09-12, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drEaPer

Thats the challenge of adressing the target audience in the right manner.

So the bottom line seems to be that if you want to play the game it's free. If, on the other hand, you want to play it properly and enjoy it to the fullest, you'll have to pay. The idea seems to be that you get people to play by offering the incomplete, unfinishable game to the public in the sure knowledge that a certain number will become addicted and pay the price just so they can keep playing.

Sounds like a scam to me. No, more like a drug dealer.

A long time ago there was a cartoon strip called The Wizard Of Id. One of the characters once paraphrased Abraham Lincoln, saying "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and that's enough for a good lawyer to make a living."

drEaPer · 05-10-12, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The idea seems to be that you get people to play by offering the incomplete, unfinishable game to the public in the sure knowledge that a certain number will become addicted and pay the price just so they can keep playing.

Yep, and before it just had a different naming: Demo, Trial, Shareware with restricted access to content and functions.

Unlike World of Warcraft, Eve Online etc. you do not have to pay 60 bucks after a 14day trial and transfer 15 bucks a month to continue playing.

That is really bad, I see...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Sounds like a scam to me. No, more like a drug dealer.

You can get alcohol if you want it. It is your decision if you consume it.

Your logic: Games should not be fun, when there is paycontent in it, as fun games can be addictive.
Ban World of Warcraft.
Ban arcade game halls.
Ban poker.
Ban las vegas. Its the biggest drug dealer in the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

A long time ago there was a cartoon strip called The Wizard Of Id. One of the characters once paraphrased Abraham Lincoln, saying "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and that's enough for a good lawyer to make a living."

Blizzard fools over 10 Mio people. They are probably all braindead zombies. I was one of them. And I enjoyed my zombie time. It was a good game, until I got bored and quit. Maybe I am just too drug resistent?

Playing a subscription based game for half a year:

Initial cost: ~60 $, Subscription cost: 15x6 = 90$
-> 150 $

Invest 150 $ in the core unlocks of a western (non asian grinder) F2P and you will have probably unlocked all of the permanent important stuff that you need to fully enjoy the game and even retain some money for those "consumable" things like potions or XP boosts.

Conclusion: You are a doomsayer.

Sailor Steve · 05-11-12, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drEaPer

Conclusion: You are a doomsayer.

Not at all. All I'm saying is if you have to pay to get the fullest benefit, then no matter how you twist it it's not really free.

Dowly · 05-11-12, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Not at all. All I'm saying is if you have to pay to get the fullest benefit, then no matter how you twist it it's not really free.

This is true.

drEaPer · 05-11-12, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Not at all. All I'm saying is if you have to pay to get the fullest benefit, then no matter how you twist it it's not really free.

So its not a drug, thats a step forward.

Also: What you say is true and the case for all commercially
developed games.

So after back and forth, I think we can come to the agreement, that F2P should be called F2T =Free 2 Test/Try. Like a demo with largely reduced scope.

Sailor Steve · 05-11-12, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drEaPer

Also: What you say is true and the case for all commercially
developed games.

But they rarely tell you it's free.

Quote:

So after back and forth, I think we can come to the agreement, that F2P should be called F2T =Free 2 Test/Try. Like a demo with largely reduced scope.

So you admit it's not free. That's a step forward for you.

Ducimus · 05-11-12, 10:37 AM

Free to play really is a farce. Actually, i take that back, its marketing genius. Some free to play models are better then others. I personally never tried Free 2 play until:

a.) Age of Conan
This F2P model acted more like an extended trial. Certain features were limited that really aids character progression. For example, in this game, certain areas are needed to progress your character - they happen to be premium only. So you have road blocks set up, that either slow you down, or make it agonizing to play without subscribing. This F2P model is very easy to see through. There's no microtransactions, your just deliberately road blocked at certain key areas. It is in effect an extended trial. You cannot progress at certain key points without subscribing.

b.) Lord of the Rings Online
This model, consists of microtransactions. The game doesnt force via road blocks you can't get around without subscribing, instead you buy access to the area via turbine points. These points are sold in lots that come out to like 5, 10, 20, or 50 US dollars or something like that. If something costs 100 turbine points to access, you have to buy like 500 turbine points, being the lowest increment of points you can buy (or something like that).

Long story short with LOTR, they nickel and dime you via turbine points. Need more backback space? That'll cost you. Want access to certain skills? That'll cost you. They charge via small amounts of turbine pionts, id even say each transaction is a pittance. So it doesn't seem like your spending lots of cash - until you start adding it all up. Over the course of 3 months before i got bored and quit, i had spent the cash equivlant of 6 months premium subscripton in microtransactions. So they got twice the money out of me, for the same time period. Considering i'm stingy with my money, that is absolute genius on their part!

Free 2 play is not free.

drEaPer · 05-12-12, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

So you admit it's not free. That's a step forward for you.

Hehe, I like your attitude.

So the truth, like so often, is somewhere in between. F2P is a good way of making games accessible, and getting an initial idea what they are about (gameplay, style, etc.) Yet it comes with the inherent danger of creating false expectations, due to a not so fitting naming.
F2P is basically a trial version.
Additionally there is the danger of companies steering away from the fair grond, when it comes to content per $$$. Though that is not a problem of the F2P concept, but purely a problem of the specific product. A ripoff is a ripoff... no matter the distribution channel. This happens to retail games as well.

05-09-12, 09:09 AM	#1
drEaPer Navy Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 176 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thats the challenge of adressing the target audience in the right manner. Just compare asian games with western games. Thats why this does not make F2P a bad concept by itself just for being F2P. Something that comes to my mind: When I played Dungeons & Dragons Online, it had a fine approach that seemed fair and worked well. -Some of the dungeons you could enter with your group were free. Alot others were paycontent. Once payed, you could play them as much as you wanted. -The difficulty of the dungeons was perfectly fine for a standard party. It was a bit of a challenge, yet very do-able. -If you screwed up, you could instantly buy health potions of mana potions in the shop, to get you out of hopeless situations. -> Some content is buyable that is unlocked permanently and can be enjoyed just like a standard game. Some content is convinience only, that I only needed if I was actually failing the game. Without those added "pay consumables" I would have had to restart the dungeon. For me, it was a fair and well thought out approach of making money, instead of charging subscription fees (online server based games always have running costs). I actually stopped my subscription, switched the game to the F2P mode, payed like 50 bucks for all the dungeons and basically owned the content for the lifetime of the game. If I had kept the subscription based access, my costs for playing the game would have exceeded that sum by far until now. If there is no incentive to spend money, the game would not be available to you at all, since there would be no return of investment or money to cover the costs for server, traffic, live/support teams etc. Its a thin line where one thinks it starts being a "rip off" or a "fair approach". Though its not F2P by itself that is the problem.

05-09-12, 10:08 AM	#2
Gandalfi2005 Sailor man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 46 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Maybe something for the office, when im bored like today

05-11-12, 10:37 AM	#10
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Free to play really is a farce. Actually, i take that back, its marketing genius. Some free to play models are better then others. I personally never tried Free 2 play until: a.) Age of Conan This F2P model acted more like an extended trial. Certain features were limited that really aids character progression. For example, in this game, certain areas are needed to progress your character - they happen to be premium only. So you have road blocks set up, that either slow you down, or make it agonizing to play without subscribing. This F2P model is very easy to see through. There's no microtransactions, your just deliberately road blocked at certain key areas. It is in effect an extended trial. You cannot progress at certain key points without subscribing. b.) Lord of the Rings Online This model, consists of microtransactions. The game doesnt force via road blocks you can't get around without subscribing, instead you buy access to the area via turbine points. These points are sold in lots that come out to like 5, 10, 20, or 50 US dollars or something like that. If something costs 100 turbine points to access, you have to buy like 500 turbine points, being the lowest increment of points you can buy (or something like that). Long story short with LOTR, they nickel and dime you via turbine points. Need more backback space? That'll cost you. Want access to certain skills? That'll cost you. They charge via small amounts of turbine pionts, id even say each transaction is a pittance. So it doesn't seem like your spending lots of cash - until you start adding it all up. Over the course of 3 months before i got bored and quit, i had spent the cash equivlant of 6 months premium subscripton in microtransactions. So they got twice the money out of me, for the same time period. Considering i'm stingy with my money, that is absolute genius on their part! Free 2 play is not free.