Life and Debt: A Greek Tragedy (merged)

[joea]

Sorry for the late answer, very thoughtful comments as always Sky.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by joea

Sorry for the late answer, very thoughtful comments as always Sky.

No, last time I just translated/summarised somebody else's comment!

[Onkel Neal]

You really showed the Man. Your mindless activism and senseless violence snuffed out the lives of decent people.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/02/world/...html?hpt=hp_c1

Looking forward to someone coming along and throwing blame on the bank.

[the_tyrant]

Well they aready are.

Seriously, charging the people at the bank, but not the people fireboming it?

Further, he said, the bank was confident the courts would rule in favor of the executives and there was "surprise" those who caused the incident remained free.

seriously, an extra layer of glass can't do much, when even armed police can't stop it

[Jimbuna]

Terribly tragic

I wonder if the photographer who followed the firebombers part of the way has any photographic evidence that might help the authorities identify the arsonists/murderers?

[Stealhead]

I imagine so but anarchists are known to cover their faces when they do their thing so it might be hard to identify someone.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I imagine so but anarchists are known to cover their faces when they do their thing so it might be hard to identify someone.

Oh I agree but it just might bring some to justice if there is evidence.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Oh I agree but it just might bring some to justice if there is evidence.

True and with modern technology you could ID someone just by the eyes and upper face that may not be hidden if a good enough image is used enough to mark a person of interest at least.

[JU_88]

Yes its a tragic story and I hope the scumbags responsible are punished.
but it seems like it could be rather selective journalism, possibly designed to make us go - 'booo hisss' at the bad protestors and make us feel some empathy for the good bankers? maybe? or maybe not, but im just throwing it out there as possibility.

My heart goes out to this woman- but in reality, there is a story like this for every innocent person who is senslessly killed in the world (for what ever reason.)
I wonder how many 'Angeliki Papathanasopoulou's' there are in Iraq and afghanistan for example?
Do we cry for them? Does CNN report it?.. nahh of course not.

Im just saying.....

[Kongo Otto]

Teribble tragedy!

But you are aware that this incident already happened in 2010?

[Jimbuna]

Happens every day of the week in one place or another

[Kongo Otto]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Happens every day of the week in one place or another

Sadly!

[Penguin]

Way to lump hundreds of thousands of protesters together! The same thinking in reverse people have, who would call any and every cop a murderer after the death of a protestor, like after the death of Ian Tomlinson in 2009.
Killing people is not the means and way by which the political left goes.
That's why I doubt that it really happened the way CNN tells:

When the group got to Marfin, other protesters begged them not to attack the bank: "No, there are people in there." But they were ignored: "F**k them, burn it, burn the rich," the cries continued.

If it was known that there were people in the bank, certainly people would have tried to stop it not only verbally, I am talking about real protesters, not kids who want to post their cool riot pics on facebook.
Yes, people blame the banks, but not the little employees.
Despite this, it is always idiotic to torch a building, as there can never be a 100% certainity that nobody is in there, and politically nothing is won. Some people may that that is symbolism, like throwing paint, but to me it is idiotic. You can never control a fire and a molotov is indeed a deadly weapon.

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Looking forward to someone coming along and throwing blame on the bank.

While indeed the individual(s) who torched the building are to blame for this tragedy, here is one piece an alleged bank employee from the very same company wrote on the night of the event: http://blog.occupiedlondon.org/2010/...ths-in-athens/

I have not done more research how much of it is true, some facts like that the employees had to work on the day of a general strike in an institution that got blamed for the crisis (read: a potential target of the protests) are undeniable.
This article from last year also says something about an ongoing investigation against the bank for violation of fire codes.

According to the labour inspection report issued in July 2010, in their attempts to escape the fire the 27 employees of the Bank have found themselves in an iron cage. The only emergency exit was locked and the remote control that opens it was lost. The tragedy would have been even greater if a door had not been opened, which the employees used as ventilation against the bad smell coming from one of the toilets in the bank

Again: Screw the people who torched the building, I hope they will be held responsible, but please don't paint any protestor in Greece or anywhere else in the same color.

[JU_88]

Sure - its not right to band all protesters in one basket, just as you shouldn't do so with Bankers. also protesting and rioting are two seperate things.

The police here actually have the right to shoot-to-kill a rioter if he is attempting to torch a business that has residental appartments above it.
I wish they would.
......I am all for Police brutality when its used in the right context such as the above example.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by JU_88

also protesting and rioting are two seperate things.

Yes, but it is not only b/w, protests and protests that become violent are rather complex. I have witnessed escalations from both sides, sometimes even at the same event. The blame-game aftermath however always looks the same: "oh, it's THEIR fault! We did nothing. THEY started it!" - on all sides...

Originally Posted by JU_88

The police here actually have the right to shoot-to-kill a rioter if he is attempting to torch a business that has residental appartments above it.
......I have no problem with that.

I think we both still have the pictures from last year's London riots in our head, where it was just pure luck and coincidence that nobody died in a burning building.
If someone would try to torch the building where I reside and I had a gun at hand, I would certainly use it, no doubt about that.