Newbie: How much do you "tip-toe"

[Siinji30]

Hi. New to Dangerous Waters, and I´m trying to find a rythm for playing at. What speed are you usually travelling around with. When do you go lower than that? And if you´re trying to get a good TMA do you travel at 7-8 kts. (moving around a bit) with bearing changes to get better TMA? Or do you 3 kts. all the time to not get heard by the enemy? How much do you "tip-toe"? And what is recommended?

[darksythe]

IMHO it depends on what you are trying to accomplish are you trying to sneak up on a already detected platfrom? if so then plot a course which you can go your slowest and still come in to whatever range your looking for.

7kts is good for working a tma track.

And the highest speed that you should go is going to be dependant on the sounds conditions and how low you can dive. go to the SSP station and have a look at the sound layers in you area, or if you want to be sure about it, or have moved a signifigant amount from where youve started launch a XBT and wait untill it gives you new layer information.

Hope this helps.

[SKeeM]

It really depends on alot of variables. if your in a 688 and hear pings from a surface ship but have nothing on sonar. You might want ot get an ESM cheak. If you catch him on ESM and still have no sonar contact Its safe to dive a bit and run fast and then go for another ESM cheak. That way between the pings and ESM you can get a good idea of were he is. If you have a faint contact on your TA and nothing on your sphear? Its safe to run at a faster speed to get a better cross bearing or closer to the target to try and catch him on your sphear also. When i say run faster i mean about 10-12 knots. Slowing to 4-6 knots. Again it dependes on your target. If you know your hunting a Kilo wich is very silent. Your faint signal on the TA may not mean he is far away. So a constant speed of 4-6 knots with course changes would be the safe bet. It all comes down to knowlage of your ships sensors, Knowlage of your enemys capabilitys, Understanding the inviorment, The info provided in the mission briefing and you gut feeling.

[WargamerScott]

Originally Posted by Siinji30

Hi. New to Dangerous Waters, and I´m trying to find a rythm for playing at. What speed are you usually travelling around with. When do you go lower than that? And if you´re trying to get a good TMA do you travel at 7-8 kts. (moving around a bit) with bearing changes to get better TMA? Or do you 3 kts. all the time to not get heard by the enemy? How much do you "tip-toe"? And what is recommended?

I'm new to DW myself so I'll take a crack at this answer based on my limited experience.

If there are no immediate threats in the area, I usually cruise along at 10-12 knots, slowing every half hour or so to check the sonar picture. Once I have a contact that interests me, I slow to 7-8 knots. And, once I am positive that it is a hostile contact, I creep along at 5 knots (assuming the target is coming to me and I don't have to chase it). If I have to chase it, then I catch up by doing some sprint and drifts.

Hope this helps too.

[TLAM Strike]

Depends on what you are driving. With the kilo I stay around the 1-5 knots range. With a nuc boat I search 5-15 knots and fight 'loud and proud'.

[Oberon]

I usually 'sprint and drift' whilst searching the datum. Dropping below the layer if possible and notching the engines up to full for 15-45 minutes, then slowing down to 5 knots, poking up above the layer, having a good listen and then dropping down again.
If anything comes up then I'll see if I can figure which way it's going and try to get ahead of it and set up an ambush.

[Angle]

Changeing course and speed several times is best for tma with just a single source.



Man I miss fast attack.

[compressioncut]

There's a rule called the 5/50/5 rule, where you alter your course by at least 50 degrees, and speed by at least 5 knots, at least every 5 minutes. It's more a defensive tactic designed to stifle the other guy's TMA, rather than help with yours, though. Good for surface ships and possibly the best passive defense to employ, as the sub is relying pretty much altogether on TMA.

[Angle]

Yes. but when you alter your course when developing TMA you alter the "fan" of the bearings. You get to a point where can alter your speed and course and have no change in the ruler if there is no change in the target's course/speed. You can end up with a fairly accurate long range solution with just the towed array that way.

[Kapitan]

under ice never fater than 4 knots in a track unless behind a contact that is going faster (only cause i can mask my own noise)

attacking 3 knots running away anything to flank at 30 meters

[drEaPer]

When Im in a Seawolf i m at 15 kts most of the time and slow down regulary to check below and above the layer. With the 688 I m at 13 kts most of the time. Akula I cruise at 7 and with a Kilo as slow as the situation allows.

[Apocal]

Originally Posted by compressioncut

Good for surface ships and possibly the best passive defense to employ, as the sub is relying pretty much altogether on TMA.

This will probably make the "true" submariners onboard roll their eyes, but I've found that making a quick radar sweep is great for getting a workable firing solution on a surface unit. And more than once it's had the unexpected side benefit of revealing "drifters" (too) close by.

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by Apocal

This will probably make the "true" submariners onboard roll their eyes, but I've found that making a quick radar sweep is great for getting a workable firing solution on a surface unit. And more than once it's had the unexpected side benefit of revealing "drifters" (too) close by.

Roll my eyes nothing...I almost spit my drink on my keyboard! :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Bellman]

A very high risk tactic Apocal for many reasons. But you do say a ''quick'' sweep and some very successful
Seawolf submariners used this technique at the start of a SC sub v sub MP scenario to eliminate surfs from the picture.

However the question was about speed of progress and tip-toeing As a submariner when you are searching you
tend to sprint and drift with 'regular' course changes to clear the TA and SA baffles. However, now, the LwAmi
3.0 mod forces you to proceed with extreme caution, as the more realistic reduced sonar detection ranges
can mean a silent slow sub lurker can be almost undetectable within 5 nm.

So now, more 'cruise, tack, clear and crawl' than sprint and drift. Its more edgy, realistic and yes, fun.
But the choice of these tactics depends on whether the scenario was designed for vanila or LwAmi.

After establishing an initial NB contact when closing to investigate or mount an attack your speed and depth
of progress depends on the SSP, your estimate of your potential for concealment (given the platforms
identity is still unknown) and the need to build up your sonar picture for TMA. However you can make some
tentative assumptions about what a hostile 'needs' to do, and plan accordingley.

This next 'cat and mouse' stage is for most bubbleheads the hook which feeds their adrenalin. Building an accurate
manual TMA , ''tip-toeing' speed, depth and course to fox, fix the target in your sights and send him shrimping.
Thats the buzz - greater than any flight sim and I say that as a past addict of that genre.

PS. If any potential DW purchasers are reading this - please move into the fast lane of excitement ......................
Go and buy right now. :|\

[Bellman]

I am sure that more experienced divers could write a book on this topic and the above is a mere flavour.

However I want to add a rider to my remark about ''extreme caution'' Within this 'game' fortune favours the bold.
There is always a trade-off between the risk of exposure and deploying your sub and its sensors to
maximum advantage. The need to obtain and implement the most accurate sensor information is paramount to
securing the 'big picture' and initiating an attack.

Aggressive, and successful, submariners will always risk exposure to secure the initiative.