Silent Hunter Online

[Julhelm]

Actually the screenshots look pretty cool. It doesn't look like an arcade game. I just hope it won't be an XP grind.

[Hinrich Schwab]

Originally Posted by Julhelm

I just hope it won't be an XP grind.

Considering the current pattern of MMORPGS, yes, it will be a grindfest. Not only that, it is schmuck bait for a classic MMO money trap. The pics show the Type IIA. I was never a fan of the Type II, but the IIA particularly sucks. I can see it now. Want a Type IIB, IIC or IID? Pay 5, 10 or 15 bucks respectively. Want a Type VII? Grind a zillion XP for a promotion and get a Type VIIA with just enough to get you sunk.

Want your boat to have its historical true crush depth? Pay or grind.

Want a KDB Hydrophone? Pay 30 bucks or grind another zillion xp just to eliminate the fatal forward baffle.

Want BOLD canisters or Anechoic coatings? Pay or grind.

Want a radar detector? Pay or grind for anything except METOX because METOX will get you killed.

Bernard is available for your crew for free!!!!!

Just got sunk? No problem! You respawn at your home port with a minor penalty. (So much for realism)

I am convinced that this is just a money maker for Ubi. I know one Kaleun who won't show up for this party.

EDIT: Just for added snark, I would want to show up as a Tribal, Fletcher or Sumner Class destroyer to show all of the "gamers" Ubi is trying to attract with this silliness how badly they are doing it wrong with the game.

[Julhelm]

Yeah, this is one genre that doesn't need an XP grind. It's funny, the very first and most successfull MMO sims (e.g Aces High, Warbirds) always let you pick and choose whatever you wanted to without unlocks or contrived "design" elements like that. I hate how every game HAS to have levels and unlocks just because Modern Warfare made a billion dollars and popularized that ****.

[elanaiba]

I would contest the success of Warbirds and Aces High but then again, if they survived as long as they did, works for me But you have to remember that in both games you would pay a monthly fee in order to play!

BTW, COD is not the first game to have XP, levels and unlocks. The thing about unlocks is that they actually serves to gradually introduce features to the player without overwhelming him from the start. Would a game work without them? Sure.

I did work on SHO as a consultant for a couple of months before leaving Ubi. It has some potential. Will it replace SH3/4/5? Negative, I don't think it will, its a different game with a sliglty different target. But they do want to get the Subsim guys to like it, they're very careful about it.

If it turned out anything like what was on paper when I left, it should have some interesting tricks up its sleeve, things that you've never been able to do in the SH series before.

Its free, may be worth a try, right?

Dan

[Hinrich Schwab]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Agreed.

The gaming industry reminds me so much of the major players back in 1981 and 1982 before the industry crash. Everything was about cashing in on franchises and screwing the gamers to turn a buck.

It looks like the mod community's stock just went up and split since Ubisoft wants its "Call of Duty with Submarines" If the subsim community wants accuracy, it has to provide it on its own. If I want "casual", I can easily pop in SH II, III, 4 or 5 and set up a generated mission just to burn a couple of hours. Same for Destroyer Command if I am in the mood to "Popeye" about in Tin Cans.

I don't need any BS Ubisoft online, unrealistic, false-reward-spewing grindfest to get my fix on submarine action. Shells of Fury is more rewarding than the thoughts of a SH MMO concept.

[drEaPer]

About grinding stuff:

I am killing so much tonnage in SH3 anyway... just because its fun... think about it for a sec: What do submarines do? What is their purpose? They grind tonnage... its actually what they are made for....

One could say grinding in a shooter has more diversity than doing the same stuff over and over again to kill some freighters....

Spot convoy, follow, get in firing position, kill, maybe kill some DDs, or
evade them and all for a value, called tonnage...
now, just for a moment, replace "tonnage" by "highscore".
Whats the difference? Not much...
When you return to base after a patrol, your success is measured in a very unspectaculay way: Just a number.

Since I m grinding anyway, because the process of doing so is fun, where is the problem?

[OnyxBMW]

Originally Posted by drEaPer

Since I m grinding anyway, because the process of doing so is fun, where is the problem?

The bigger issue appears to be a matter of how it's perceived as handled.

When you play SH*, your goal isn't to, for instance, rank up to a new submarine. Not directly, at least. Instead, your goal is to survive and destroy ships, and you happen to get upgrades somewhat coincidentally as time progresses. By comparison, when you have a grind system that uses XP to unlock, it shifts the focus away from sinking ships and surviving to progressing to the next newer, better submarine.

It won't happen to some people who prefer to not notice such details, since they're still playing the same game (operating under an assumption here). But, the majority of a community will most certainly not make the distinction, and it certainly becomes a matter of getting the next newer, better thing, whatever it is.

Using World of Tanks as an example (PVP instead of PVE, mind), even if the gameplay is fun, the purpose for playing often appears to strictly be progression to the next tank in a progressively longer somewhat linear grind. The gameplay is fun, but the end-goal is always the drive, and that is the fundamental disconnect that will happen when you very obviously throw a grind on top of a game that, by nature, can be construed as a grind due to its somewhat repetitive gameplay.

It's not the repetition that's the problem, or the gameplay. It's the focus of why you're doing the gameplay, and it can become overbearing and take over the community as a whole.

Granted, on an individual basis this may not be a problem, and depending on the communities that develop within the game, if you find your niche community this shouldn't be an issue.

But, what really does concern me is the somewhat heavy handed comments about how the game is going to be casualized.

I don't know about everyone here, but I'm fairly certain a number of us all play at different levels of difficulty and desire different forms of "simulation", from competency of the enemy AI, realism of behavior and routes, and so on, to difficulty of placing shots and finding targets and so on and so forth.

I, personally, play SH5 at the 40-50% mark since, for example, I don't like dud torpedoes and can't handle the TDC at all, nor do I have a desire to do so (among other things). But, I know a lot of people here, since I've perused here often, prefer the game moving so close to simulation that it may as well be analogous to real life during WW2 as a captain. I'm more concerned with how Ubi is going to handle the situation, since this is PVE, so that a player like me, who wants the game to be easier and more of a turkey shoot, but doesn't mind handling logistics such as fuel consumption and finding convoys and the like, versus another player like these boards seem to have, who want to handle all that I do but without a free-floating camera, with dud torps, using the TDC manually, and trying to find ships with active sonar intentionally trying to find everything in a given area.

It can be handled Bastion style, where it's a choose your own difficulty for enhanced rewards...or it could be handled as a one size fits all system...but it seems like, depending on how it's structured, this could be incredibly off-putting to a number of people, especially the more hardcore fans of the simulation aspect of the game.

Either way, I'll need to keep an eye on this, but I am not a fan of a browser-based 3D game...at all...

Hell, I'll Beta test it.
I'm only interested in the files anyway.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

But they do want to get the Subsim guys to like it, they're very careful about it.

well UBI would probably have more goodwill around here if they had, at a strict minimum, patched SH5 to remove the most obvious bugs.

I was more than willing to give UBI the benefit of the doubt over SH5, but this looks like the final sellout of the SH franchise.

The only good thing about this is that it makes NWAC look better and better...

[Julhelm]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

I would contest the success of Warbirds and Aces High but then again, if they survived as long as they did, works for me But you have to remember that in both games you would pay a monthly fee in order to play!

BTW, COD is not the first game to have XP, levels and unlocks. The thing about unlocks is that they actually serves to gradually introduce features to the player without overwhelming him from the start. Would a game work without them? Sure.

I did work on SHO as a consultant for a couple of months before leaving Ubi. It has some potential. Will it replace SH3/4/5? Negative, I don't think it will, its a different game with a sliglty different target. But they do want to get the Subsim guys to like it, they're very careful about it.

If it turned out anything like what was on paper when I left, it should have some interesting tricks up its sleeve, things that you've never been able to do in the SH series before.

Its free, may be worth a try, right?

Dan

We shall see. I'll judge it by it's own merits for sure. I worked on BF3 which had a pretty lame implementation (gotta level up to get flares on your jet) and if it's anything like that my interest will take a crashdive*. I just don't care for that type of grind where you are forced to start off with the lowest-tier equipment.

*It's already diving just because it's WW2 Uboats again. I would much prefer an online game with some Sturgeon-on-Victor III action.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

I did work on SHO as a consultant for a couple of months before leaving Ubi. It has some potential. Will it replace SH3/4/5? Negative, I don't think it will, its a different game with a sliglty different target. But they do want to get the Subsim guys to like it, they're very careful about it.

If it turned out anything like what was on paper when I left, it should have some interesting tricks up its sleeve, things that you've never been able to do in the SH series before.

Its free, may be worth a try, right?

Dan

There are things you do or say just out of principle. If I were the lead on a project that tanked and was asked by the same company to consult on a different project that is related to the project I worked on I would tell them to take a flying leap. Or better yet I would tell them to complete the first project before attempting another one. I cannot be bought with $.

It all comes down to a little thing called integrity. If you don't know what that word means I'll tell you:
1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
2. the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.
3. a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull.

Just from what you said above one has to question your moral character and integrity.

Maybe it's because of my military background that I have integrity and not afraid to stand up for myself and what I believe/know is right

They want subsim to like it? Are you kidding me After the shaft you all stuck us with on SH5? I really hope this is all a bad dream and I will wake up soon

If they want any hope in subsim liking it then they need to:
- release the source code to SH5 so we can properly fix it or
- get back to work on creating the patch(es) for SH5 to fix what is still broke

Intregrity. Ubi = NO integrity

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

There are things you do or say just out of principle. If I were the lead on a project that tanked and was asked by the same company to consult on a different project that is related to the project I worked on I would tell them to take a flying leap. Or better yet I would tell them to complete the first project before attempting another one. I cannot be bought with $.

It all comes down to a little thing called integrity. If you don't know what that word means I'll tell you:
1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
2. the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.
3. a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull.

Just from what you said above one has to question your moral character and integrity.

Maybe it's because of my military background that I have integrity and not afraid to stand up for myself and what I believe/know is right

They want subsim to like it? Are you kidding me After the shaft you all stuck us with on SH5? I really hope this is all a bad dream and I will wake up soon

If they want any hope in subsim liking it then they need to:
- release the source code to SH5 so we can properly fix it or
- get back to work on creating the patch(es) for SH5 to fix what is still broke

Intregrity. Ubi = NO integrity

Having met Dan Dimitrescu in person I, like so many others know him to be high in moral character and integrity as well as a good friend to Neal and SubSim.

Anyone seeking to go down the route of what may be perceived as insulting members will be in breach of the forum rules and appropriate action may well result.

I hope we can all get on together.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Having met Dan Dimitrescu in person I, like so many others know him to be high in moral character and integrity as well as a good friend to Neal and SubSim.

Anyone seeking to go down the route of what may be perceived as insulting members will be in breach of the forum rules and appropriate action may well result.

I hope we can all get on together.

Sorry there forum cop for what you always perceive as deragatory or insulting. Quit playing forum cop and find something better to do with your time. People have a right to say what they want. Sometimes the truth hurts.

I have nothing against Dan. In fact he gave me great information in the early days of SH5 that I'm very grateful for. His decisions are his decisions. But one should be more careful what they say in a public environment, especially when it comes to the Silent Hunter franchise.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

If they want any hope in subsim liking it then they need to:
- release the source code to SH3, 4, and 5 so we can properly fix them or
- get back to work on creating the patch(es) for SH5 to fix what is still broke

Fixed. All Ubi can do is release a game that tanks and leave it up to the community to fix what they can, SH5 is getting better all the time and they've not spent another penny on it!!!

FFS they couldn't even get the voice-over guy in the SHO trailer to speak with a german accent! They don't care, they want there initial rush of people paying top-whack for a game that promises all and when the prices get cut, as inevitable when the players realise they've been sold a dud, they stop any further dev.