Unnarmed 17 year old shot dead "in self defence"

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

This law is really a defence attorney's dream come true.

What happened to:

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.***8212;The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who

1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:.
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

I read this to say that Zimmerman, having undeniably pursued his victim rather than the inverse, will have qualified for 776.041. Even if the altercation goes badly for him, the duty to retreat is restored and he no longer has the right to stand his ground.

[Stealhead]

I think it is very likely that Zimmerman is/was an overly zealous and possibly overly aggressive person it seems rather clear that in failing to become a police officer himself he placed himself into a role that gave him (falsely) the same powers.I think he is probably a rather dim witted individual who completely misunderstood aspects of the SYG law and failed to consider that even a suspicious person is not a threat and he did not consider the possibility that his actions could also have been seen as suspicious(following someone) and place that person in fear of possible ill intent.

So you have a perfect storm of two persons seeing what that felt was an immanent danger and reacting one person tried there hardest to avoid the danger one tried there hardest to pursue it.The problem is that Zimmerman by having called the police of a suspicious person "that something was not right with" yet had done nothing to warrant Zimmerman's pursuit of under SYG(which could only be a person in the act of committing a forcible felony to cause death or great harm to another person Zimmermans claim comes after having pursued a person SYG gave him no right to).

I think that Zimmerman (obviously he had already scared Martin by following him in a vehicle) more than likely grabbed or attempted to restrain Martin and Martin seeing that this man was not a LE officer rightly reacted in self defense the manner in which he did could vary depending on his situation be it grabbed by the arm or clothing or pinned to the ground by Zimmerman.The fact that Zimmerman had a bloody noise implies that Martin struck him in the face.The Sanford Police seem to feel that because Zimmerman had injuries and grass stains that backs his claim and that is a pile of horse crap if tow people get into a scuffle they are both gong to get hurt and dirty so you can not use that alone to say that the one that got dirtier or more banged up was the one who was right.

I think Zimmerman is to blame for Martins death no question that he caused the entire incident had he stayed in his truck Martin would have walked home and drank that Arizona Iced Tea no question in my mind.

[yubba]

So how did Zimmerman get a broken nose and head laceraition,.????????? be back with link http://www.theblaze.com/stories/repo...rge-zimmerman/ and there is a witness to back Zimmermans claim. So if you see someone in your yard and you step out and ask them what they are doing, and they attack you, what are you going too do, when they got the best of you.???????? Guess what we don't know what happened, you can make all the claims you want, all these therioes don't stand up in a court of law, and I'm not a fan of mob rule, and I'm also not a fan of ganster whanna be's.

[Sailor Steve]

Yubba, obviously you're biased. So are some on the other side of this discussion. What needs to be done is to charge Zimmerman, put it to the Grand Jury and let the proper authorities ask these questions. If he's innocent then it should come out. If he's guilty then it should come out. The simple fact is that you and they are already convinced of the truth, and the truth is that you don't know any more than I do.

It's all idle speculation, nothing more.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by yubba

So how did Zimmerman get a broken nose and head laceraition,.????????? be back with link http://www.theblaze.com/stories/repo...rge-zimmerman/ and there is a witness to back Zimmermans claim. So if you see someone in your yard and you step out and ask them what they are doing, and they attack you, what are you going too do, when they got the best of you.???????? Guess what we don't know what happened, you can make all the claims you want, all these therioes don't stand up in a court of law, and I'm not a fan of mob rule, and I'm also not a fan of ganster whanna be's.

Because it is not outside the realm of possibility for someone fighting for their life to inflict serious injury (which a broken nose and laceration are not).If someone puts my life or my families life in danger and all I have is is my bare hands I am taking the threat on even they have a gun.

The story you post comes from a source that has an obvious leaning it would be just as foolish to trust a story coming from source that has an agenda to make blacks appear to be always the victims of racism.

I made no claim in my previous post I merely suggested that two persons may have encounter each other and both parties might have seen the other as a possible threat.Therefore when one made took an action the other might have reacted to what they felt was a threat.If you can not read my last post and understand that was the meaning then I am going to have to buy Rosetta Stone Yubba edition.

The simple fact is that this incident should have been investigated from the start not because Martin was black or Zimmerman another race.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by yubba

I'm also not a fan of ganster whanna be's.

Yeah because wearing a hoodie makes him a "ganster whanna be". And let me guess, the girl who's raped is asking for it because she was wearing a short skirt, right? Same thing.

Go crawl back up into the butt of whatever Glenn Beck type radio personality you worship.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by yubba

So how did Zimmerman get a broken nose and head laceraition,.????????? be back with link http://www.theblaze.com/stories/repo...rge-zimmerman/ and there is a witness to back Zimmermans claim. So if you see someone in your yard and you step out and ask them what they are doing, and they attack you, what are you going too do, when they got the best of you.???????? Guess what we don't know what happened, you can make all the claims you want, all these therioes don't stand up in a court of law, and I'm not a fan of mob rule, and I'm also not a fan of ganster whanna be's.

Read the testimony. Doesn't contradict the part where Zimmerman was following this Trevor first. It is possible Trevors threw the first punch and Zimmerman sucked so much he was getting the crap beaten out of him. Nevertheless, 776.041 Use of force by aggressor, Condition 2 applies and there is no sign Zimmerman even tried to retreat.

[breadcatcher101]

This would be a more fitting headline from what I hear:

"Black Teenager Shot and Killed While Attacking Hispanic Neighborhood Watch Member"

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Read the testimony. Doesn't contradict the part where Zimmerman was following this Trevor first. It is possible Trevors threw the first punch and Zimmerman sucked so much he was getting the crap beaten out of him. Nevertheless, 776.041 Use of force by aggressor, Condition 2 applies and there is no sign Zimmerman even tried to retreat.

Here is the whole issue for me at least.First off we only know what Zimmerman claimed there are no other eye witnesses.How do we know that Zimmerman did not draw the weapon(not necessarily with intent to use it but to make it been seen) and that is what caused Martin to attack him(in defense of what is obviously a threat to his life) or how do we not know that Zimmerman tackled or other wise restrained Martin when he had no clear right and in no way identified himself of course still if Martin was dong nothing illegal Zimmerman would have no right to restrain him in a physical manner (he would have no right to touch Martin unless Martin was in act of committing some crime like breaking into a car or home for example).Zimmerman never says that he was in the act of committing a crime until he came after him to attack him near his vehicle.

And the SYG law cant apply as some are trying to claim with no question because it would then allow an aggressor in a violent hand vs. gun having been pulled the person who unarmed has the only resource to use violent hand to hand combat to attempt try and keep the person from shooting them in other words if the one pulling the gun on a person having the right to SYG as well (SYG is self defense not just firearm self defense) and if the person keeps trying to use the gun then they have the right to beat that person to death if that is what it takes to stop them.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by breadcatcher101

This would be a more fitting headline from what I hear:

"Black Teenager Shot and Killed While Attacking Hispanic Neighborhood Watch Member"

That has yet to be proven to be true nor has it been proven that Zimmerman has the right or what exactly happened.That is why the case got taken over because local boys could not do the job very well.

Any person on this forum if it had been their relative that had been shot (regardless of race) they'd want the case looked over with a very fine toothed comb indeed which is obviously not what Sanford PD did.People fail to take into consideration that this kid had no record no troubles why would he suddenly act violently and to a person larger than himself for no reason?Forget his race and think about that for a minute.This kid was from the Miami area trust me if you want to be a gangster or a tough guy trouble maker there it is very easy to find down that way in some areas it is very hard to walk on the straight and narrow.

By the way Zimmerman is White Hispanic in other words he is half white half hispanic.

By the way Zimmerman is White Hispanic in other words he is half white half hispanic.

No it means he is white hispanic which means he is white.

[Stealhead]

No it means that his parents are of two separate races.
By your statement any person who is half white and half any other race then they automatically are white.
So a person who is half white and and half black is white right? So that makes Barack Obama also a white.

I think that the way the US breaks down different races is flawed to be honest.For example white is considered those having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.So according to that Osama Bin Laden was white because it considers Arabs to be whites.Anyway this whole issue is another can of worms.I think the focus on race in the US and many other countries more than likely causes tensions why cant you state that you are a member of the human race as a race?They do not give you that option.

[Blood_splat]

[Dowly]

[kraznyi_oktjabr]