Happy Independance Day Texas

[_dgn_]

When I read about this history about (300) people coming from outside the country,

- who didn't want to speak the local language
- who didn't want to adopt the local religion
- who didn't want to become local citizens
- who flouted local laws
- who rebelled when the legitimate authority tried to force them
- who called for the aid a foreign country
- who celebrated their "liberation" and their following "independence"

it's impossible for me to forget what is happening now (and soon tomorrow) in Europe with people coming from outside the continent ...

Yes, Happy Independance Day Texas !

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by _dgn_

When I read about this history about (300) people coming from outside the country,

- who didn't want to speak the local language
- who didn't want to adopt the local religion
- who didn't want to become local citizens
- who flouted local laws
- who rebelled when the legitimate authority tried to force them
- who called for the aid a foreign country
- who celebrated their "liberation" and their following "independence"

it's impossible for me to forget what is happening now (and soon tomorrow) in Europe with people coming from outside the continent ...

Yes, Happy Independance Day Texas !

You forgot, they fought a small war and won

[_dgn_]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

You forgot, they fought a small war and won

Sorry, I forgot this essential point ...

Europe won in 732.

But now ???

[TarJak]

So where's the BBQ Neal?

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by TarJak

So where's the BBQ Neal?

On the cake probably.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by _dgn_

When I read about this history about (300) people coming from outside the country,

- who didn't want to speak the local language
- who didn't want to adopt the local religion
- who didn't want to become local citizens
- who flouted local laws
- who rebelled when the legitimate authority tried to force them
- who called for the aid a foreign country
- who celebrated their "liberation" and their following "independence"

Sounds like you should read a bit more on Texas history since you've got some important pieces wrong, and it's a tad insulting.

[_dgn_]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Sounds like you should read a bit more on Texas history since you've got some important pieces wrong, and it's a tad insulting.

Your version is the usual one, which is teached in Texas and in the United States : some valorous colonists, oppressed by a dictatorial authority, take guns and occupy a fort. They are all exterminated by brutal enemy soldiers. But their sacrifice needs a revenge and the fraternal United States run and bring peace and freedom.

But a flattering (WASP ?) and mythical version ! What are thinking in Texas the Spanish speaking people, or the descendants of people who where living here before Union rules, about it ?

When I was younger, I studied American history in Saint-Cyr (the French equivalent of West Point) and I got a Master's in History.

I learned that history is unfortunately history. Nothing in the past can be changed. But in theory, only. Because events can be differently presented, great events unawared, and minor ones magnified.

In this case, it's no more history, only propaganda.

Insulting ? No, only disturbing !

[u crank]

I LIKE TEXAS! HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by _dgn_

Your version is the usual one, which is teached in Texas and in the United States : some valorous colonists, oppressed by a dictatorial authority, take guns and occupy a fort. They are all exterminated by brutal enemy soldiers. But their sacrifice needs a revenge and the fraternal United States run and bring peace and freedom.

Your history is the biased outsider's, and is no more accurate than you claim ours is. First, no Mexicans wanted to live in Texas, so they made a deal with some Americans who were willing to work the land (or at least make their slaves do it).

Second, Santa Ana (not Mexico itself) was indeed a dictator who was run out of office after the loss of Texas. He made his way back in and then got run out a second time. As for not speaking the local language, there were some Mexicans living there. Guess what? They, led by Juan Seguin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Segu%C3%ADn, joined the Texians against Santa Ana. Why? Because he really was the ruthless dictator you defend. After being elected to the presidency he wrote a new constitution and disbanded the congress. Not just Texas but several Mexican states rebelled. Texas was the one which defeated him, without help from the United States. Santa Ana lost power and fled to the US, where he lived in exile.

When he was allowed to return he again made himself dictator. The Mexican-American war came about because Texas applied for US Statehood, and Santa Ana said he would not allow it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio..._de_Santa_Anna

But a flattering (WASP ?) and mythical version ! What are thinking in Texas the Spanish speaking people, or the descendants of people who where living here before Union rules, about it ?

It would appear you don't know as much as you claim.

In this case, it's no more history, only propaganda.

You saying it doesn't make it so. Please show your "true" history. Links, documents, anything.

Insulting ? No, only disturbing !

No, it's insulting. Showing that something is wrong is neither insulting nor disturbing. You don't do that, you just claim that what you disagree with is propaganda and myth. A lot of it is, but if you are the historian you claim to be then you should know that you need to prove your claims, not just make them.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

No, it's insulting. Showing that something is wrong is neither insulting nor disturbing. You don't do that, you just claim that what you disagree with is propaganda and myth. A lot of it is, but if you are the historian you claim to be then you should know that you need to prove your claims, not just make them.

Thank you, Steve. I was going to start off by saying that his premise was wrong as the Mexicans invited the American settlers in, because they didn't want to deal with the Comanche themselves. Not to mention the rest of the inaccuracies. But then I got that typed, and said forget it because it sounded like someone who was just set on slinging mud at an "ugly American."

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by _dgn_

In this case, it's no more history, only propaganda.

Insulting ? No, only disturbing !

Depends on how you look at it. I am pretty happy the guys who immigrated in from Tennessee did grab the dictator Santa Ana by his peasant tunic and throw him out, and set up a new republic based on the USA. It sure worked out great for everyone lining in Texas, especially from the MLK era on.

Now, had this land stayed under the control of those "Spanish speaking people, or the descendants of people who where living here before Union rules", would it have been any different than that glorious paradise of prosperity, freedom, and security called Mexico we all know love? I think not.

[Hottentot]

(To self: "Don't start a historiographical debate, don't start a historiographical debate, don't start a historiographical debate, don't start a historiographical debate...")


Cheers Texas!

("...resist the temptation to start a historiographical debate, resist the temptation to start a historiographical debate, resist the temptation to start a historiographical debate...")

[nikimcbee]

Okay, Mookie, I need to see if you're a real Texan, or not.


So, do you have a cowboy(not dallas!) hat, boots and a big-ass belt buckle? Pictures, or it didn't happen. Yes, you must be wearing all three at the same time.

[nikimcbee]

Texas history stuff:
http://www.thealamo.org/battle/battle.php

http://www.sanjacinto-museum.org/The_Battle/

high water mark of Texas history:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...60386&page=247

and more importantly:
http://www.deepdomain.net/

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Okay, Mookie, I need to see if you're a real Texan, or not.


So, do you have a cowboy(not dallas!) hat, boots and a big-ass belt buckle? Pictures, or it didn't happen. Yes, you must be wearing all three at the same time.

Ahhhahahaha, I have a pair of boots. No belt buckle or hat, sorry.