Yet another school shooting - Page 2

AngusJS · 02-27-12, 01:02 PM

Umm... you can run from a guy with a knife. You cannot outrun a bullet. You cannot spray a room with knives. You can with a gun.

If it were possible to force kids to use knives or other melee weapons, that would be a good thing.

But come on, we all know that the real answer is to just arm all the students so they'll be able to take an attacker themselves. At least according to the the gun nuts.

Ducimus · 02-27-12, 01:11 PM

Only real answer, that i can think of, is a damn airport security styled metal detector you have to walk through when entering a high school.

I hate saying that, because its typical Nanny over reactionary knee jerk reaction.

I do remember when I was in high school though. Gang violence was A LOT higher then it is now. My high school had 6 drive by's, they removed ALL lockers so you had to carry ALL your books, ALL the time, had several secruity guards, and later on having a full time Local PD office set up - and i went to the good high school. The other was worse.

Karle94 · 02-27-12, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Only real answer, that i can think of, is a damn airport security styled metal detector you have to walk through when entering a high school.

I hate saying that, because its typical Nanny over reactionary knee jerk reaction.

I do remember when I was in high school though. Gang violence was A LOT higher then it is now. My high school had 6 drive by's, they removed ALL lockers so you had to carry ALL your books, ALL the time, had several secruity guards, and later on having a full time Local PD office set up - and i went to the good high school. The other was worse.

Actually, posting policemen or a dedicated security team to a school isn´t such a bad idea. It costs more, but it´ll money well spent.

Stealhead · 02-27-12, 01:29 PM

"Only real answer, that i can think of, is a damn airport security styled metal detector you have to walk through when entering a high school."

Actually many schools in tougher areas have been doing this for over a decade now.If you look at it the crazy kid shooting others it usually happens at the nicer schools not the bad ones.Look at Columbine that school was and still is one of the best public schools in Colorado.Most schools in the US today have one full time LE officer in Florida and Louisiana they are called school resource officers I do not know what sates have them and what one don't.But even one LE officer is not gong to stop one nut bag ans that is the whole problem nuts are nuts and they are going to do what they are going to do not much really that can be done about it if they cant use a gun they will use a knife cant spree at school they will spree in the town.I am sure it has been an age old problem some nut I am sure on more than one occasion went round the village splitting wigs.

I agree with the others getting stabbed or shot is bad I'll pass on both thanks.

running around stabbing someone is actually more violent as well the person who goes that route over a gun is truly a violent person in choosing such a personal way to kill.And you cant out run a bullet but moving makes you a harder target if you are trapped in a corner either weapon has your number even if you try to fight back.Either can be deadly depending on how you get hit either can cause shock though generally speaking bullets are much deadlier and CCIP even military FMJ rounds are very very nasty and they are more likely to pass though one person and hit another than JHPs and such the worst type for one person would be the expanding rounds designed for hunting big game you get hit by one of these in the head or torso you are very likely going to die even if you are a 1000+ pound bull moose well any most any head wound if it hits your brain or brain steam and you are finished unless you get very lucky like Cathy Giffords which i am guessing that that Glock must have had FMJs and she was close enough that the bullet went right though and did not have time to tumble as it passed through her head which shows that the primary effect with a bullet is pretty much what it happens to hit the type of round and the velocity at impact some times too much speed actually can lower damage.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 02-27-12, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I agree with the others getting stabbed or shot is bad I'll pass on both thanks.

running around stabbing someone is actually more violent as well the person who goes that route over a gun is truly a violent person in choosing such a personal way to kill.And you cant out run a bullet but moving makes you a harder target if you are trapped in a corner either weapon has your number even if you try to fight back.Either can be deadly depending on how you get hit either can cause shock though generally speaking bullets are much deadlier and CCIP even military FMJ rounds are very very nasty and they are more likely to pass though one person and hit another than JHPs and such the worst type for one person would be the expanding rounds designed for hunting big game you get hit by one of these in the head or torso you are very likely going to die even if you are a 1000+ pound bull moose well any most any head wound if it hits your brain or brain steam and you are finished unless you get very lucky like Cathy Giffords which i am guessing that that Glock must have had FMJs and she was close enough that the bullet went right though and did not have time to tumble as it passed through her head which shows that the primary effect with a bullet is pretty much what it happens to hit the type of round and the velocity at impact some times too much speed actually can lower damage.

Congresswoman's name was Gabrielle Giffords (namesake of USS Gabrielle Giffords LCS-10 no, not a joke unfortunately). If I remember correctly she was also lucky because bullet didn't shatter inside skull nor did it take significantly foreign objects inside brain. Important was ofcourse fast and efficient first aid.

Stealhead · 02-27-12, 03:10 PM

Yeah I forgot the first name but you proved my point that the type of bullet being fired as well as the velocity at the time of impact and also the size and the grain of the bullet are all factors.A few milometers is what saved Giffords life.

The 9x19mm is a fairly fast bullet but also not very heavy so it tends to do less damage than other calibers so you have to be a bit more accurate than you would with say a .45 ACP which is a much slower bullet but also has much more mass behind it I would rather have a heavier round in a pistol not a faster lighter one.Of course I am not interested in shooting innocent unarmed people either.

Flip side of the coin is even a tiny .22 can kill you so basically foreign objects entering your body at any velocity or temperature has the potential to cause you to expire unnaturally.

the_tyrant · 02-27-12, 03:48 PM

My school has 2 full time police officers here, and I have to say, the drug dealing and stuff did die down

I do not believe that guns themselves are the problem.

Schools represent things like government, and oppression(or at least the people who hate school think so)

Remove the guns and things like this would still happen.

Around 1 year ago, there were many preschool stabbings in china.

Those people had a grudge with the administration, and they attacked the education system. Schools are a noticible part of government (and they usually have no security). These guys only had knives, so they couldn't have attacked high-schools for fear of being overpowered.

Instead, they took their grudge with the government to preschools

Gargamel · 02-27-12, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karle94

Actually, posting policemen or a dedicated security team to a school isn´t such a bad idea. It costs more, but it´ll money well spent.

Right, been down that road. Next step is unrestricted searches, Orwellian policies. No thank you.

And what would a security guard at one door have done for the kid in he cafeteria?

Was just informed that one of my coworkers kid is one of the injured.

MH · 02-27-12, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

My school has 2 full time police officers here, and I have to say, the drug dealing and stuff did die down

I do not believe that guns themselves are the problem.

Schools represent things like government, and oppression(or at least the people who hate school think so)

Remove the guns and things like this would still happen.

Guns are not the main issue but guns make it all more deadly.
I guess its the price you pay for having ability to buy guns just like IPhone device.
Not saying that gun control would make incidents like this a thing of the past in a short term but probably less likely to happen statistically in the future.
You have pros and cons in second amendment ...take it or leave it.

Gargamel · 02-28-12, 04:20 PM

And a third one dies.

Again, another family friend of a coworker.

Platapus · 02-28-12, 05:00 PM

Where did this punk get the gun? Was it another case of the parents having unsecured handguns?

yubba · 02-29-12, 07:55 PM

Happened in the lunch room, what the federal lunch bag inspecter didn't catch it ????? step away from the turkey sandwich, there's no veggies here, nothing too see. you wonder why god lets things like this happen, simple god is not allowed in school.

Stealhead · 03-01-12, 01:18 AM

Oh right I never saw it that way god made the kid shot other kids at a school because god is angry because he is not allowed in schools.

My favorite kind of Christians the ones that go around telling everyone that god is vengeful at that you go to hell (I love that one you are telling me that you know what god intends for me is that not blasphemy to say that you know what god thinks?) if you do not believe every word of the bible
and that people and nations get punished for ticking god off if that is the case he would have never allowed the US to come into being in the first place seeing as the
majority of the founding fathers where more or less agnostic or at least believed that religion and government we to be separate and some where atheists but god allowed
these evil disobedient men to from a nation.I think many people confuse the fact that the US allows freedom of religion to mean religion and government mixing.

And people wonder why guys like Rick Santorum are popular.

03-01-12, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Happened in the lunch room, what the federal lunch bag inspecter didn't catch it ????? step away from the turkey sandwich, there's no veggies here, nothing too see. you wonder why god lets things like this happen, simple god is not allowed in school.

It's not true, the reptilians ate god after the secret illuminati federal mandate that he only be served without vegetables...or was that served two vegetables.

Ducimus · 03-01-12, 05:00 PM

Here's an update on this.

The Gun"man", is 17 year old T.J. Lane. He used a .22 caliber pistol, and as his upbringing goes, as the saying goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/01/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1

I can't help but think that if people like that kid and his father was removed from the gene pool so they couldn't contaminate the rest of us, the world be a better place.

02-27-12, 01:29 PM	#19
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	"Only real answer, that i can think of, is a damn airport security styled metal detector you have to walk through when entering a high school." Actually many schools in tougher areas have been doing this for over a decade now.If you look at it the crazy kid shooting others it usually happens at the nicer schools not the bad ones.Look at Columbine that school was and still is one of the best public schools in Colorado.Most schools in the US today have one full time LE officer in Florida and Louisiana they are called school resource officers I do not know what sates have them and what one don't.But even one LE officer is not gong to stop one nut bag ans that is the whole problem nuts are nuts and they are going to do what they are going to do not much really that can be done about it if they cant use a gun they will use a knife cant spree at school they will spree in the town.I am sure it has been an age old problem some nut I am sure on more than one occasion went round the village splitting wigs. I agree with the others getting stabbed or shot is bad I'll pass on both thanks. running around stabbing someone is actually more violent as well the person who goes that route over a gun is truly a violent person in choosing such a personal way to kill.And you cant out run a bullet but moving makes you a harder target if you are trapped in a corner either weapon has your number even if you try to fight back.Either can be deadly depending on how you get hit either can cause shock though generally speaking bullets are much deadlier and CCIP even military FMJ rounds are very very nasty and they are more likely to pass though one person and hit another than JHPs and such the worst type for one person would be the expanding rounds designed for hunting big game you get hit by one of these in the head or torso you are very likely going to die even if you are a 1000+ pound bull moose well any most any head wound if it hits your brain or brain steam and you are finished unless you get very lucky like Cathy Giffords which i am guessing that that Glock must have had FMJs and she was close enough that the bullet went right though and did not have time to tumble as it passed through her head which shows that the primary effect with a bullet is pretty much what it happens to hit the type of round and the velocity at impact some times too much speed actually can lower damage. Last edited by Stealhead; 02-27-12 at 01:43 PM.

02-27-12, 03:48 PM	#22
the_tyrant Admiral Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 2,272 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	My school has 2 full time police officers here, and I have to say, the drug dealing and stuff did die down I do not believe that guns themselves are the problem. Schools represent things like government, and oppression(or at least the people who hate school think so) Remove the guns and things like this would still happen. Around 1 year ago, there were many preschool stabbings in china. Those people had a grudge with the administration, and they attacked the education system. Schools are a noticible part of government (and they usually have no security). These guys only had knives, so they couldn't have attacked high-schools for fear of being overpowered. Instead, they took their grudge with the government to preschools __________________ My own open source project on Sourceforge OTP.net KGB grade encryption for the rest of us

02-28-12, 04:20 PM	#25
Gargamel Lucky Sailor Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Rome Posts: 4,273 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	And a third one dies. Again, another family friend of a coworker. __________________ Luck is a residue of Design.

02-28-12, 05:00 PM	#26
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,386 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Where did this punk get the gun? Was it another case of the parents having unsecured handguns? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

03-01-12, 01:18 AM	#28
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Oh right I never saw it that way god made the kid shot other kids at a school because god is angry because he is not allowed in schools. My favorite kind of Christians the ones that go around telling everyone that god is vengeful at that you go to hell (I love that one you are telling me that you know what god intends for me is that not blasphemy to say that you know what god thinks?) if you do not believe every word of the bible and that people and nations get punished for ticking god off if that is the case he would have never allowed the US to come into being in the first place seeing as the majority of the founding fathers where more or less agnostic or at least believed that religion and government we to be separate and some where atheists but god allowed these evil disobedient men to from a nation.I think many people confuse the fact that the US allows freedom of religion to mean religion and government mixing. And people wonder why guys like Rick Santorum are popular. Last edited by Stealhead; 03-01-12 at 01:30 AM.

02-27-12, 01:02 PM	#16
AngusJS Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 746 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Umm... you can run from a guy with a knife. You cannot outrun a bullet. You cannot spray a room with knives. You can with a gun. If it were possible to force kids to use knives or other melee weapons, that would be a good thing. But come on, we all know that the real answer is to just arm all the students so they'll be able to take an attacker themselves. At least according to the the gun nuts.

02-27-12, 01:11 PM	#17
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Only real answer, that i can think of, is a damn airport security styled metal detector you have to walk through when entering a high school. I hate saying that, because its typical Nanny over reactionary knee jerk reaction. I do remember when I was in high school though. Gang violence was A LOT higher then it is now. My high school had 6 drive by's, they removed ALL lockers so you had to carry ALL your books, ALL the time, had several secruity guards, and later on having a full time Local PD office set up - and i went to the good high school. The other was worse.

02-27-12, 03:10 PM	#21
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Yeah I forgot the first name but you proved my point that the type of bullet being fired as well as the velocity at the time of impact and also the size and the grain of the bullet are all factors.A few milometers is what saved Giffords life. The 9x19mm is a fairly fast bullet but also not very heavy so it tends to do less damage than other calibers so you have to be a bit more accurate than you would with say a .45 ACP which is a much slower bullet but also has much more mass behind it I would rather have a heavier round in a pistol not a faster lighter one.Of course I am not interested in shooting innocent unarmed people either. Flip side of the coin is even a tiny .22 can kill you so basically foreign objects entering your body at any velocity or temperature has the potential to cause you to expire unnaturally.

02-29-12, 07:55 PM	#27
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	Happened in the lunch room, what the federal lunch bag inspecter didn't catch it ????? step away from the turkey sandwich, there's no veggies here, nothing too see. you wonder why god lets things like this happen, simple god is not allowed in school.

03-01-12, 05:00 PM	#30
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Here's an update on this. The Gun"man", is 17 year old T.J. Lane. He used a .22 caliber pistol, and as his upbringing goes, as the saying goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/01/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1 I can't help but think that if people like that kid and his father was removed from the gene pool so they couldn't contaminate the rest of us, the world be a better place.