A Bunch of Young Lawyers are Suing Their Law Schools Because They Don't Have Jobs

Herr-Berbunch · 02-17-12, 09:50 AM

I don't think it's just that school, or just that trade - I know of lots of people who've trained to be one thing after being promised, falsely, lots of job availability.

@JLSTIGER - hope you get the job you want

MH · 02-17-12, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

I don't think it's just that school, or just that trade - I know of lots of people who've trained to be one thing after being promised, falsely, lots of job availability.

No its not and one should not take adds seriously ...seems the lawyers had learned their trade well though.

CaptainHaplo · 02-17-12, 12:16 PM

A number of schools are being sued for the same type of thing. A friend of mine is on the hook for student loans for her brother - he went to culinary school, and hasn't found work yet.

What makes it so bad is that not only is it hurting him financially - its now affecting her. Because she has been harmed directly due to the fraudulent employment data presented, she may be due relief - which in this case is simply being removed from liability for the loan. Its something I am helping her explore.

Penguin · 02-17-12, 12:54 PM

First, I find an education system which is solely based on money sick. Giving false hope to students to lure them into your school is a result of this. You can't run an education facility like you'd run a factory.

Second: what is with the individuals own decisions? Is it to much for a 20something person to inform oneself about job prospects in the field you work and in the region you want to live? Hell, they spend 150grand for their education, but can't spend a day at the chamber of commerce, local businesses or maybe only in the web to get informations how the reality looks like...

That being said, long-term projection are always hard to make, especially if you ask economic "experts". Then there is alos the infamous hog circle you have to consider.

Sueing someone for your own mistakes is sadly a common sport. Hell, I could be rich by now if I had sued the shop in the US were I accidently rammed a clothes hanger into my belly while jumping up to grab a hoodie which was too high for me.

Well, I refuse to make money from my own stupidity.

Anyway: the best of luck for you JSL

- my rant is not meant against you, but against the "blame anyone else but myself"-mentality which is too common nowadays and which those law grads from Brooklyn clearly seem to have.

the_tyrant · 02-17-12, 03:59 PM

You know, after thinking about it, employment numbers are a horrible way for potential students to decide on what to major in

after all, the data you see now is from at least 1-2 years ago, add in the 4 years for an undergrad degree, that means that there will be 5 years in between.

A lot can change in 5 years

Stealhead · 02-17-12, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

You know, after thinking about it, employment numbers are a horrible way for potential students to decide on what to major in

after all, the data you see now is from at least 1-2 years ago, add in the 4 years for an undergrad degree, that means that there will be 5 years in between.

A lot can change in 5 years

That would be about right the data is about 4 or 5 years old by time it gets published.Another thing I dislike are those Department of Labor stats on different fields they are very misleading because they measure everyone employed in the US in that field it is all averaged the demand for a job might be high and one state and very low in another and the pay is averaged out so it is misleading as well.

GoldenRivet · 02-18-12, 12:17 AM

as the saying goes... nobody has the crystal ball.

You have to go and make the best possible decision with the information at hand.

If the information is as accurate and as up to date as possible... thats the best you can do.

if the information has been twisted around to suit the needs of the person selling you the goods... you're being had.

soopaman2 · 02-18-12, 12:38 PM

This will create a precedance for all the lazy "political science" and "cultural studies" (women, African American American Indian classes) to sue, because they took courses with no real substance to society.

Kinda like lawyers?

Whenever lawyers get involved with anything they are always the winner. Even if they lose, they still get paid. Judges still get paid, so guess who loses?

I feel zero pity, though I do find it amusing to see the potential 1% claw at the real 1%.

Maybe they will off each other, and higher education can mean more than a piece of paper, and a guaranteed job because you had the finances to pay.

Penguin · 02-18-12, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

would these people gather any more sympathy if they had been of some other profession?

No

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

if the information has been twisted around to suit the needs of the person selling you the goods... you're being had.

If you get your informations about a product solely from the seller you're not being had but being stupid.

Bubblehead1980 · 02-18-12, 06:41 PM

While I want to have sympathy, that is what they get for selecting a Law School based on the wrong criteria, I barely considered those type of statistics when I selected which school to attend.

Stealhead · 02-18-12, 07:58 PM

That does not make any sense you are assuming that they chose the school based on that reason even though it does not say anywhere that they did.More than likely they made their chose based on numerous factors.I find it a little hard to believe that you did not take such statics into consideration who is going to attended a law school that has few alumni practicing law?

What was your determining factor then which school had the highest prestige that you could get into? Which prestige still largely reflects to some extent alumni having good jobs at least some of them.

Every educational institution to some extent whats you to feel as though you will get a job because you attended that is the whole idea of post secondary education in the first place.

I'd be careful about being so smug Bubblehead you are not even finished with law school yet you might have as hard a time finding a job as a lawyer as they are.You may not
file a lawsuit against your school but you still are going to enter a highly competitive and saturated field you are about to enter an ocean loaded with fish.

02-18-12, 08:19 PM

Quote:

While I want to have sympathy, that is what they get for selecting a Law School based on the wrong criteria, I barely considered those type of statistics when I selected which school to attend.

Yet according to yourself you chose a law school where all the staff don't know anything about law, havn't done anything in the legal business world and are only doing political indocrination of the students who as it happens are all brainless.

So what exactly was your criteria in choosing the school?

Stealhead · 02-18-12, 08:33 PM

That is true I forgot about his previous complaints about how "leftie-pinko-commie" all the professors are.He will probably sue his school for having a leftie-commie agenda.

A more realistic person when taking into consideration the current job market in general would be wise when seeking higher education to have the goal of making themselves as marketable as possible in numerous fields and be willing when young and inexperienced to take lower paying jobs.My mother majored in the Arts but she only held a job as an art teacher for 2 years the rest of her 35 year teaching career she was an English teacher.

Takeda Shingen · 02-19-12, 09:37 AM

Breaking silence to offer a word of advice to those of you seeking higher education:

In the wake of the 'For-Profit' (a strange term, but the accepted one) explosion, you need to look at your schools before deciding on moving forward. In that vein the single most important question, and one that has not been touched upon at all in this thread, is not employment statistics for graduates but rather accreditation. That is, not that the school is accredited (most of them will be), but the type of accreditation. Generally, there are two types--national and regional.

Essentially, Regional Accreditation indicates that the institution is a traditional 'Non-profit' (also a strange, yet accepted term) academically-oriented school. There are six Regional Accredidation organizations that such a school will be accredited by:

Middle State Association of Colleges and Schools (I am employed by a university accredited by Middle States)
New England Association of Schools and Colleges
North Central Association of Colleges and Schools
Northwest Association of Schools and Colleges
Southern Association of Colleges and Schools
Western Association of Schools and Colleges

National Accreditation is granted by a variety of agencies that were designed to oversee the content of varying types of institutions such as trade schools that were mentioned earlier in the thread. If the name of the accrediting organization is different than the six I mentioned above, the school is nationally accredited. National Accreditation is a legitimate accreditation, albeit considered less prestigious as it is linked to non-academic institutions. While those institutions are legitimate, it should be noted that many 'fly-by-night' schools typically use National Accreditation as well, as the requirements are a bit lighter.

Whatever school you choose, you need to do homework. You can make your job easier by looking at the type of accreditation. If you are going for an academic degree (medicine, law, education, history, music, art, literature, political science, biology, physics, etc) you want a school that is Regionally Accredited. If you see a college offering degrees in those areas that is Nationally Accredited, that is likely a less-than-reputable institution, and a good school to avoid.

Bubblehead1980 · 02-20-12, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

That is true I forgot about his previous complaints about how "leftie-pinko-commie" all the professors are.He will probably sue his school for having a leftie-commie agenda.

A more realistic person when taking into consideration the current job market in general would be wise when seeking higher education to have the goal of making themselves as marketable as possible in numerous fields and be willing when young and inexperienced to take lower paying jobs.My mother majored in the Arts but she only held a job as an art teacher for 2 years the rest of her 35 year teaching career she was an English teacher.

Again, I was not talking about all my professors, just that fact that academia is dominated by left wingers and many use their positions to spread that failed ideology.Not all, but many and yes I have had some professors who are commies, both in law school and undergrad.

02-17-12, 09:50 AM	#1
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	I don't think it's just that school, or just that trade - I know of lots of people who've trained to be one thing after being promised, falsely, lots of job availability. @JLSTIGER - hope you get the job you want __________________

02-17-12, 12:16 PM	#3
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	A number of schools are being sued for the same type of thing. A friend of mine is on the hook for student loans for her brother - he went to culinary school, and hasn't found work yet. What makes it so bad is that not only is it hurting him financially - its now affecting her. Because she has been harmed directly due to the fraudulent employment data presented, she may be due relief - which in this case is simply being removed from liability for the loan. Its something I am helping her explore. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

02-17-12, 03:59 PM	#5
the_tyrant Admiral Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 2,272 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	You know, after thinking about it, employment numbers are a horrible way for potential students to decide on what to major in after all, the data you see now is from at least 1-2 years ago, add in the 4 years for an undergrad degree, that means that there will be 5 years in between. A lot can change in 5 years __________________ My own open source project on Sourceforge OTP.net KGB grade encryption for the rest of us

02-18-12, 12:17 AM	#7
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	as the saying goes... nobody has the crystal ball. You have to go and make the best possible decision with the information at hand. If the information is as accurate and as up to date as possible... thats the best you can do. if the information has been twisted around to suit the needs of the person selling you the goods... you're being had. __________________

02-18-12, 12:38 PM	#8
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	This will create a precedance for all the lazy "political science" and "cultural studies" (women, African American American Indian classes) to sue, because they took courses with no real substance to society. Kinda like lawyers? Whenever lawyers get involved with anything they are always the winner. Even if they lose, they still get paid. Judges still get paid, so guess who loses? I feel zero pity, though I do find it amusing to see the potential 1% claw at the real 1%. Maybe they will off each other, and higher education can mean more than a piece of paper, and a guaranteed job because you had the finances to pay. __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

02-17-12, 12:54 PM	#4
Penguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rheinische Republik Posts: 3,322 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	First, I find an education system which is solely based on money sick. Giving false hope to students to lure them into your school is a result of this. You can't run an education facility like you'd run a factory. Second: what is with the individuals own decisions? Is it to much for a 20something person to inform oneself about job prospects in the field you work and in the region you want to live? Hell, they spend 150grand for their education, but can't spend a day at the chamber of commerce, local businesses or maybe only in the web to get informations how the reality looks like... That being said, long-term projection are always hard to make, especially if you ask economic "experts". Then there is alos the infamous hog circle you have to consider. Sueing someone for your own mistakes is sadly a common sport. Hell, I could be rich by now if I had sued the shop in the US were I accidently rammed a clothes hanger into my belly while jumping up to grab a hoodie which was too high for me. Well, I refuse to make money from my own stupidity. Anyway: the best of luck for you JSL - my rant is not meant against you, but against the "blame anyone else but myself"-mentality which is too common nowadays and which those law grads from Brooklyn clearly seem to have.

02-18-12, 06:41 PM	#10
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,118 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	While I want to have sympathy, that is what they get for selecting a Law School based on the wrong criteria, I barely considered those type of statistics when I selected which school to attend.

02-18-12, 07:58 PM	#11
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	That does not make any sense you are assuming that they chose the school based on that reason even though it does not say anywhere that they did.More than likely they made their chose based on numerous factors.I find it a little hard to believe that you did not take such statics into consideration who is going to attended a law school that has few alumni practicing law? What was your determining factor then which school had the highest prestige that you could get into? Which prestige still largely reflects to some extent alumni having good jobs at least some of them. Every educational institution to some extent whats you to feel as though you will get a job because you attended that is the whole idea of post secondary education in the first place. I'd be careful about being so smug Bubblehead you are not even finished with law school yet you might have as hard a time finding a job as a lawyer as they are.You may not file a lawsuit against your school but you still are going to enter a highly competitive and saturated field you are about to enter an ocean loaded with fish. Last edited by Stealhead; 02-18-12 at 08:12 PM.

02-18-12, 08:33 PM	#13
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	That is true I forgot about his previous complaints about how "leftie-pinko-commie" all the professors are.He will probably sue his school for having a leftie-commie agenda. A more realistic person when taking into consideration the current job market in general would be wise when seeking higher education to have the goal of making themselves as marketable as possible in numerous fields and be willing when young and inexperienced to take lower paying jobs.My mother majored in the Arts but she only held a job as an art teacher for 2 years the rest of her 35 year teaching career she was an English teacher.

02-19-12, 09:37 AM	#14
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Breaking silence to offer a word of advice to those of you seeking higher education: In the wake of the 'For-Profit' (a strange term, but the accepted one) explosion, you need to look at your schools before deciding on moving forward. In that vein the single most important question, and one that has not been touched upon at all in this thread, is not employment statistics for graduates but rather accreditation. That is, not that the school is accredited (most of them will be), but the type of accreditation. Generally, there are two types--national and regional. Essentially, Regional Accreditation indicates that the institution is a traditional 'Non-profit' (also a strange, yet accepted term) academically-oriented school. There are six Regional Accredidation organizations that such a school will be accredited by: Middle State Association of Colleges and Schools (I am employed by a university accredited by Middle States) New England Association of Schools and Colleges North Central Association of Colleges and Schools Northwest Association of Schools and Colleges Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Western Association of Schools and Colleges National Accreditation is granted by a variety of agencies that were designed to oversee the content of varying types of institutions such as trade schools that were mentioned earlier in the thread. If the name of the accrediting organization is different than the six I mentioned above, the school is nationally accredited. National Accreditation is a legitimate accreditation, albeit considered less prestigious as it is linked to non-academic institutions. While those institutions are legitimate, it should be noted that many 'fly-by-night' schools typically use National Accreditation as well, as the requirements are a bit lighter. Whatever school you choose, you need to do homework. You can make your job easier by looking at the type of accreditation. If you are going for an academic degree (medicine, law, education, history, music, art, literature, political science, biology, physics, etc) you want a school that is Regionally Accredited. If you see a college offering degrees in those areas that is Nationally Accredited, that is likely a less-than-reputable institution, and a good school to avoid. Last edited by Takeda Shingen; 02-19-12 at 09:50 AM.