TECH QUESTION , About decks awash !

[Michael13]

Originally Posted by Stormfly

i think that this "decks awash" thingy was used only by american or maybe also british sub`s not shure... never heard about a german sub doing this.

...anyway, sh5 sub`s dive all unrealistic fast, even with a green crew, so where is the point

It was using for lower profile to be more inconspicuous during attacks, not for faster diving. And yes, u-boat kaleuns used it, because they usually attacked from surface.

And about game - lower profile working. But don't know about watch and radar, because used it only twice during attacks and watched ships through UZO myself. And i still didn't get radar in SH5.

[Adriatico]

So How do you guys: p e r f o r m decks awash in game ?

Do you use "maintain current depth" command ?

I would appreciate your tips / technics ...if it is not "Kriegsmarine war secret" ?

[Michael13]

I just set depth to 7 meters (switch to advanced mode in TDW UI by holding Ctrl key). Icon that I submerged appeared but diesels still worked. Did 11 knots on Full speed (4).

[GeneralLawson]

I'm pretty sure in Iron Coffins one of the tactics used to make an attack is to sail with just the tower surfaced. I could be mistaken, though.

[vlad29]

Originally Posted by GeneralLawson

I'm pretty sure in Iron Coffins one of the tactics used to make an attack is to sail with just the tower surfaced. I could be mistaken, though.

If I remember (in this book) that was done for quicker diving in case of air threat/planes appearance, not for the attack of ships

[Stormfly]

Originally Posted by Adriatico

...if it is not "Kriegsmarine war secret" ?

well, but it was

[Stormfly]

Originally Posted by Michael13

It was using for lower profile to be more inconspicuous during attacks, not for faster diving. And yes, u-boat kaleuns used it, because they usually attacked from surface.

And about game - lower profile working. But don't know about watch and radar, because used it only twice during attacks and watched ships through UZO myself. And i still didn't get radar in SH5.

yes a low profile was very important, and most of all torp attack`s was made at dark night`s from surface, but instead of running decks completly awash (like in the screenshot above), they trimmed the sub very low in the water, and depending of the current seastate, the deck was awash then more or less ...but more from waves. Please take also in account that SH5 vanilla trimm is way to high, i use a special deep realsitic trim (also where the stern lays deeper than the bow) together with a more beleavable pitch and role behavior.

there is a translated "SUBMARINE COMMANDER'S HANDBOOK" ("U.Kdt.Hdb.")from 1943 aviable here: http://hnsa.org/doc/uboat/index.htm
...not shure but i couldnt find any taktic regarding "decks awash" there, maybe it is because the text is from 43.... but ithink (attention, here is a "if" comming) ->if<- it was a common taktic in earlyer years, they would have mention that this is not in use any more.

[pedrobas]

Originally Posted by Stormfly

there is a translated "SUBMARINE COMMANDER'S HANDBOOK" ("U.Kdt.Hdb.")from 1943 aviable here: http://hnsa.org/doc/uboat/index.htm
...not shure but i couldnt find any taktic regarding "decks awash" there, maybe it is because the text is from 43.... but ithink if it was a common taktic in earlyer years, they would have mention that this is not in use any more.

Thaks for the link Stormfly, i had it long time ago and lost it.

[Michael13]

Originally Posted by Stormfly

there is a translated "SUBMARINE COMMANDER'S HANDBOOK" ("U.Kdt.Hdb.")from 1943 aviable here: http://hnsa.org/doc/uboat/index.htm
...not shure but i couldnt find any taktic regarding "decks awash" there, maybe it is because the text is from 43.... but ithink if it was a common taktic in earlyer years, they would have mention that this is not in use any more.

Well, I read about deck awash in Robertson's "The golden horseshoe" and Werner's "Iron coffins" books. Both books have a lot of mistakes and exaggerations, but I think it's true if this tactic was mentioned in both.

And as I said they used it to attack ships while staying surfaced (often inside of convoy). Not for faster diving.
Can't give you exact quotations, because I'm reading it in russian...

[vlad29]

'Deck Awash' setting option is included in 'Speech Recognition mod'. The default value is 7,5 m. Could be adjusted with mousewheel (as well as 'confidence level')

[misha1967]

Originally Posted by Stormfly

there is a translated "SUBMARINE COMMANDER'S HANDBOOK" ("U.Kdt.Hdb.")from 1943 aviable here: http://hnsa.org/doc/uboat/index.htm
...not shure but i couldnt find any taktic regarding "decks awash" there, maybe it is because the text is from 43.... but ithink if it was a common taktic in earlyer years, they would have mention that this is not in use any more.

Ah, the Handbuch is still around! Highly recommended read!

Yes, it will help a new Kaleun in this sim too. Only thing is that you can be a bit more "daring" in the early years than it recommends since it was written in '43 where a lot of things had changed.

[Stormfly]

Originally Posted by misha1967

Ah, the Handbuch is still around! Highly recommended read!

Yes, it will help a new Kaleun in this sim too. Only thing is that you can be a bit more "daring" in the early years than it recommends since it was written in '43 where a lot of things had changed.

...as i wrote above, but i should have wrote "if" in bold letters using a higher sized font maybe

(edited my post above)

[misha1967]

Originally Posted by Stormfly

...as i wrote above, but i should have wrote "if" in bold letters using a higher sized font maybe

(edited my post above)

Not a critique at all, Stormfly. As a matter of fact, I highly commend you for linking the Handbuch. It's all too easy for us old hands to forget that we constantly have new fellow simmers joining our ranks who haven't already heard of all of the resources out there

Besides, on the topic of whether or not "decks awash" was ever used, I'm fairly certain that there were some Kaleuns out there using the tactic whether it was documented or not. After all, "invisibility" is the first, second, third and fourth commandment of a sub skipper, and surely all of them knew that the lower your profile to the enemy, the harder you were to spot.

[Stormfly]

Originally Posted by misha1967

I'm fairly certain that there were some Kaleuns out there using the tactic whether it was documented or not. After all, "invisibility" is the first, second, third and fourth commandment of a sub skipper, and surely all of them knew that the lower your profile to the enemy, the harder you were to spot.

you`re maybe right yes, i renember there was also a stupid "Kaleun" who sank the boat by not knowing how to operate the new sea toilet system which was useable while the sub was at dept.

If you compare the hight and size of a german sub`s cunning tower or the boat`s mass with the american version, you see that a pre flooded german sub only need a little mistake done by one of the dive plane operators to sink it then. If you have the cunning hatch closed, the advantage of a faster dive is maybe gone in that case. I dont think that a smart Kaleunt would take such a risk for the little advantage having a allready invisible small cunning tower 1 meter deeper. If you follow the handbook, you see that a german sub using the right "stern trim" was nearly invisible while approaching in a "dog`s curve" from the dark side at night. Last by not least, running decks awash is only a replacement of risc`s, visual detection was not the only problem. Why should they trade a maybe 5% lower visbility against a 20% higher sonar signature, keeping the same speed running pre flooded means higher rpm.

[misha1967]

Originally Posted by Stormfly

you`re maybe right yes, i renember there was also a stupid "Kaleun" who sank the boat by not knowing how to operate the new sea toilet system which was useable while the sub was at dept.

If you compare the hight and size of a german sub`s cunning tower or the boat`s mass with the american version, you see that a pre flooded german sub only need a little mistake done by one of the dive plane operators to sink it then. If you have the cunning hatch closed, the advantage of a faster dive is maybe gone in that case. I dont think that a smart Kaleunt would take such a risk for the little advantage having a allready invisible small cunning tower 1 meter deeper. If you follow the handbook, you see that a german sub using the right "stern trim" was nearly invisible while approaching in a "dog`s curve" from the dark side at night. Last by not least, running decks awash is only a replacement of risc`s, visual detection was not the only problem. Why should they trade a maybe 5% lower visbility against a 20% higher sonar signature, keeping the same speed running pre flooded means higher rpm.

I agree completely personally. I never use decks awash for that very reason. Too many things can go wrong in exchange for very little gain. The German boats were designed to have a very low silhouette even when surfaced and, if you ask me, if lowering that silhouette by 1m is enough to make a difference, then you shouldn't be surfaced at all.