One less F-14 to worry about.

[Skybird]

While I am all for never underestimating your enemy and the surprises he prepares for you, I think of most conventionel military aspects the Iranian air force is one of those we need to worry the least about. Mines, uboats, speedboats with explosives loaded, and missiles rank much higher on my awareness list. If the Iranian air force dares to show up against a US air raid, they will ask for a confrontation in which their fighters are pretty much chanceless and will not RTB.

[GoldenRivet]

if they werent killed in the crash, you can bet they probably would have been executed after it.

[soopaman2]

So why the American aircraft that they cannot get parts for., and not a Russian or Chinese aircraft that they could?

Is it because old, outdated American hardware is better than new Russian or Chinese hardware?


I thought they were their butt-buddies, shouldn't they at least sell them something decent?

1979? I was born in 1978, your jets are slightly younger than me.

Shame.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

So why the American aircraft that they cannot get parts for., and not a Russian or Chinese aircraft that they could?

Is it because old, outdated American hardware is better than new Russian or Chinese hardware?


I thought they were their butt-buddies, shouldn't they at least sell them something decent?

1979? I was born in 1978, your jets are slightly younger than me.

Shame.

Because of the imbargo the Russians and Chinese can't sell them any "offensive" weapons (Bombers, Air to Ground Missiles, Warships over a specific displacement) so the Iranians are basically stuck with North Korean weapons or Shah era weapons for all their major systems.

Basically China sold them this garbage so no one really cared:



The jets they got from Russia (Su-25, MiG-29, Su-24) were flown by defectors from Iraq in 1991. Russia might have sent them some extra air frames and such about the time they got the Kilos because we were kinda friendly to Iran for keeping out of Desert Storm.

Speaking of Su-24s...

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Because of the imbargo the Russians and Chinese can't sell them any "offensive" weapons (Bombers, Air to Ground Missiles, Warships over a specific displacement) so the Iranians are basically stuck with North Korean weapons or Shah era weapons for all their major systems.


The jets they got from Russia (Su-25, MiG-29, Su-24) were flown by defectors from Iraq in 1991. Russia might have sent them some extra air frames and such about the time they got the Kilos because we were kinda friendly to Iran for keeping out of Desert Storm.

Thank you for a serious answer.

I just have a hard time believing this considering how both countries have a " an enemy of my enemy is a friend" mentality.

Not saying America has not participated in such behavior. Just a certain 2 nations who both love Iran, are more than willing to make America look silly at any cost, why not sell them modern MiGs?

Not like anyone (including America) respects the UN.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Thank you for a serious answer.

I just have a hard time believing this considering how both countries have a " an enemy of my enemy is a friend" mentality.

Not saying America has not participated in such behavior. Just a certain 2 nations who both love Iran, are more than willing to make America look silly at any cost, why not sell them modern MiGs?

Not like anyone (including America) respects the UN.

At least for Russia they consider Iran to be a potential enemy. They have conducted military drills in the Caucasus recently simulating an attack from the south against the oil fields.

[Stealhead]

Funny thing to me is you see some so many people concerned over Iran who does not have a complete program and one way or another probably never will when you have a nation not far away from Iran called Pakistan which does have nuclear weapons and is not exactly stable I mean it would not take much to go wrong in Pakistan for the wrong people to gain control of Pakistani nukes.

Dont get me wrong Iran very much is a very serious threat in the region but it seems to me that an rather unstable nation that really does have nukes and really does have groups within that would like to get those weapons into the wrong hands should be what people are concerned about.It is like watching the suspect looking guy down the street but not seeing the guy right behind you about to hit with a baseball bat.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Funny thing to me is you see some so many people concerned over Iran who does not have a complete program and one way or another probably never will when you have a nation not far away from Iran called Pakistan which does have nuclear weapons and is not exactly stable I mean it would not take much to go wrong in Pakistan for the wrong people to gain control of Pakistani nukes.

Dont get me wrong Iran very much is a very serious threat in the region but it seems to me that an rather unstable nation that really does have nukes and really does have groups within that would like to get those weapons into the wrong hands should be what people are concerned about.It is like watching the suspect looking guy down the street but not seeing the guy right behind you about to hit with a baseball bat.

To allow Pakistan and NorthKorea developing nukes was one of the biggest mistakes in modern history. The region and the whole world pays the price especially over Pakistan. And it could become worse.

The point now is not to let Iran become a second Pakistan. Must we allow to make the saame mistake twice? I don'T think so. In case of Iran, the consequences would be even worse, with a nuclear arms race starting in the most irrational region and one of the most unstable regions in the world. Religous hysteria, racism and supremacist attitude - spiced up with nuclear arms and proliferation threats?

No, thanks. The world can do without an Iran. Whether the world can do with an Iran having nuclear arms - is a very uncertain hope. And hope is no political strategy.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

At least for Russia they consider Iran to be a potential enemy. They have conducted military drills in the Caucasus recently simulating an attack from the south against the oil fields.

The only casus belli Iran could impose to Russia, is economical, mainly European oil supply. IMHO of course. Russia has been pretty evil with putting the squeeze on its neighbors. Interrupting gas and oil flows over disputes with ex satellite nations.

I honestly do not even understand why "we" even have a dispute with Iran, outside of butthurt over Jimmy Carters cowardice in letting our friend the shah fall.

They do not harm America honestly. Sure they bruise our ego with stupid diplomatic crap, but we are America, and they still stone people to death.

[magicstix]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

The only casus belli Iran could impose to Russia, is economical, mainly European oil supply. IMHO of course. Russia has been pretty evil with putting the squeeze on its neighbors. Interrupting gas and oil flows over disputes with ex satellite nations.

I honestly do not even understand why "we" even have a dispute with Iran, outside of butthurt over Jimmy Carters cowardice in letting our friend the shah fall.

They do not harm America honestly. Sure they bruise our ego with stupid diplomatic crap, but we are America, and they still stone people to death.

It goes deeper than you've mentioned, but we're in it mostly to protect Europe, Israel, and Saudi Arabia, who would be more in danger with a nuclear Iran. We also wouldn't put it past them to hand off a nuke to terrorist groups that want to hit us.

Iran has killed American servicemen through their proxy Hezbollah, and they spend a lot of time looking for a fight with the US. They've made it clear they want to be in charge of the middle east, which makes the Saudis nervous, which makes oil prices nervous, which makes us nervous. The United States (and western civilization in general for that matter) benefit directly from a stable, mostly status quo world, especially in the Middle East. Iran is a direct threat to that stability, which makes them a threat to Western prosperity.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Speaking of Su-24s...

Boy, I always thought our old F4s would leave quiet a smoke trail but that's nothing compared to that.