New Interface for Uboats

[Wilcke]

Hey karamazovnew, good to see you posting again. I still run OM + OMEGU and the TDC has never been better. Its just plain deadly!

[BULL]

karamazovnew - this is an awesome mod. I only play high realism and use your mod for calculating speed and range. It ads to the realism of play for me. I still like to do AoB by my own mental estimation. I manage to achieve a high percentage of hits at least as good as what I think real U-Boats got. My last patrol was over 50K tons sunk with 73% hits using your targeting mod. Anyway - this is just to say thanks and welcome ashore!

[I'm goin' down]

I need a good tutorial. I am having trouble sinking moving ships, as their is not a really good tutorial. I am working on it though, as the mod looks really good.

[karamazovnew]

Originally Posted by NEXUS_6

Captain Karamazovnew,

I have a small plan to modify SH4. Then, I want to know how buttons and circles work as an operator push or rotate them. I could find the secrets a little in menu_1024_768.ini and Dials.cfg, but not enough. Why do I can see the rings you created when I push the button with circles on the top? How do I link items with an action described in text files to the action of objects. Need Silent 3ditor?

I will appreciate your response. Looking forward to it.

Unfortunately in SH4 and Sh3, you're limited to the notepad and your imagination. I recommend using SH5's interface editor, as you can graphically see what's going on and en up with blocks of text which you can then paste into your SH4 menu file. SH4 and SH5 have exactly the same interface concepts.
The interface modding is a monster and I really can't take you through all the steps. There are quite a few tutorials out there including my own take on the SH5 editor here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163118
There's also a tutorial in the SH3 section which shows you how to make dials, but I can't remember where.

However, when it comes to functionality, SH5 is very different. I never took the time to figure out how to do stuff such as a simple button. Basically in SH5 you can make anything you want. In SH4 you're limited to adding existing dials to specific screens (you can't add dials to the hydrophone screen, for example) and what's worse, you can't copy or move existing buttons (to copy the Autoupdate button from the TDC screen to the Periscope screen). You can only change the position on screen and change how they look, not what they do. Although the game has a simple "click item do action" file (the commands file), it doesn't seem to do anything when you add stuff, so you're stuck with all existing buttons. You can browse through this thread as I documented each step in making this mod, and you'll see all the corners and shortcuts I had to use. It was the sort of "cat + tin can + string = air conditioner".

Now for your exact questions:
- the button with the red circle is just a simple button, i'm guessing it's the stadimeter button. Buttons change their image when you click them. So I made 2 images, one of the simple button, and one with the "Circle on top". When you click that button, you see the other image. A special case is the AOBF red button. When you click that, you actually see another page with the graphic of that button included in the background.
- dials are more simple and I used them a lot, for example the torpedo tubes switches are actually dials, and so is the Autoupdate blue button on the TDC . If you go through the image files of this mod you'll see mirrored upside down switches. Each pair is a sort of rotating Needles that hide behind another part of the interface Dials are simply a background and a rotating image on top (usually a needle). You can either show an existing value, or modify that value through the dial (this is done by a few commands). In the dials.cfg file you can see all the dials in the game and their specific commands and trust me, you can't do anything that's not already there. You can link a dial to do a command (but not a button ). The problem is that making a dial behave like a button is tough. It took me days just to make the Autoupdate button work when clicked.
- the Silent3d editor can be used mainly for 3d objects. So it won't help you. A cool think is that you can create a new 3d object and link any command to it. Why they didn't allow this in the 2d interface we'll never know....
- oh and an advice... don't waste time making linear dials (such as the periscope depth tube)...they're impossible to control.

[karamazovnew]

Nexus, thanks but it was a my choice not to include the Lut dials in the interface. First of all, there is no way to check if the torpedo in the selected tube is Fat or Lut or just a plain torpedo. Second, it's better to use Lut torpedoes from the Attack Map because you can see their pattern there. I actually took a lot of convincing to include the salvo and Fat dials, since I myself never used them and they were never done successfully in SH3 interfaces either. So it never was a problem of "not knowing how", it was an "I did it but it sucks, so I've removed it" thing And this was even before creating the 3d panels and rendering the images you see in the game. Here's the actual post: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...8&postcount=51

As I recall, the Lut dials were not really usable (in the vanilla game), it wasn't just my interface. If you've managed to fix them, that's wonderful knews, but I'd still only use them in the Attack Map, for the above reasons. As for modifying the interface, you're free to do as you please with it, but I'm not touching it again. It's final as it is and very very hard to modify, even for me. A simple glance through the image files will reveal just how intertwined the elements of the interface are. Even I don't remember everything that's in it. I used to have a list of all my items somewhere but I can't find it anymore. The interface has a life of its own now, free from its creator , liiive little thing, liiive

[karamazovnew]

Nexus, you got me wrong , I've said it time and time again that no permission is required to do anything with the interface, you can post here any idea, modification, open up new threads, anything. You can even take the interface, make it work in vanilla and rename it "The New Nexus Interface!" and I still won't mind . I've been begging modders of SH5 to take everything and put it in SH5, and use the power of SH5 to simplify the damn thing, but only Reaper7 took some interest into that.
My only concern for this interface is finally making a complex video training session to help players of all SH games grasp the power of the TDC. My fascination for Mikhayl's ACM interface for SH3 opened up a whole new way of playing the game. SH4 didn't have that and the U-boat expansion was impossible for me to play without proper tools, so I created this interface. It grew from a simple tool to an artistic endeavor, being the single greatest and at the same time only work I ever finished in a 3D and 2D program. It was also a Harry Potter mystery to figure out how the menu file worked, I solved it, created a method, tested every possible thing that was doable and made my interface at the limits of what was achievable, but all in the context of giving players a superb looking interface. It was great fun, but I've done it, it's finished. And it now rests in the files of another finished work, OM+OMEGU.

My advice is, if you want to start modding, you'll have a great time doing it. It's been one year since last tweaking this mod, I always worked by trial and error and I'm no modding teacher by far. WHat I've learned, I've wrote in this thread, least I forget them. And forget I did But try it in SH3 as there are tons of dedicated modders still pumping wonders into that old gem, or try modding SH5 as that one contrinues to grow and grow.

Although nobody has asked me this question, I think playing OMEGU is the best way to learn Silent Hunter. It's much easier and streamlined than either SH3 and SH5, sitting right between them in graphics and difficulty. It can be difficult but you always see who's hitting you and why, you always get the big picture, unlike the noob scares of SH3 or the toddler chairs of SH5. It's also the friendliest take on the game, with no bugs, no weird situations, just pure gameplay from the start. And you only need one big mod to start playing.
And considering just how broken the SH4+UBM game was at the start, and how limited in scope, it's a testimony to what Lurker has achieved with his unique mod.

[I'm goin' down]

If too much time elapses between calculation of the target's speed and Aob, it appears that the Aob reading will be inaccurate. The longer ones delays or the faster the target is moving the degree of inaccuracy in the determination of its Aob increases. Are, as a general rule, these assumptions correct? If so, since calculation of a target's speed is in part a function of its range and and time (i.e. the number of seconds it takes the target to travel its length), a delay in setting the Aob after speed is calculated may result in an inaccurate determination of Aob. This might result in screwing up the firing solution.

If the foregoing is correct, then as a general rule it seems that speed should be calculated after range and Aob are calculated. If a target takes a long time to cross a bearing on the periscope, or if is travelling at a high rate of speed, a subsequent Aob determination could very well be inaccurate. In the KIUB written tutorial, Karamazovnew's calcualtes range, Aob and speed in that order.

One altermative is that you can calcuate speed first. Then recalculate range and Aob. This means that you will make a second range reading to caluclate the target's speed.

Is may analysis of this issue correct. The above assumes that the KIUB interface is being used for the range, speed and Aob calculations.

[CVeezy23]

On my attack periscope, when I zoom, it says it's a 4x zoom. When I zoom out, it's 1x zoom. In the manual it said it was 1.5x and 6x. Does this matter or is there something wrong? I'll reinstall it all, but I just thought I'd ask.

Thanks

[Wilcke]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

If too much time elapses between calculation of the target's speed and Aob, it appears that the Aob reading will be inaccurate. The longer ones delays or the faster the target is moving the degree of inaccuracy in the determination of its Aob increases. Are, as a general rule, these assumptions correct? If so, since calculation of a target's speed is in part a function of its range and and time (i.e. the number of seconds it takes the target to travel its length), a delay in setting the Aob after speed is calculated may result in an inaccurate determination of Aob. This might result in screwing up the firing solution.

If the foregoing is correct, then as a general rule it seems that speed should be calculated after range and Aob are calculated. If a target takes a long time to cross a bearing on the periscope, or if is travelling at a high rate of speed, a subsequent Aob determination could very well be inaccurate. In the KIUB written tutorial, Karamazovnew's calcualtes range, Aob and speed in that order.

One altermative is that you can calcuate speed first. Then recalculate range and Aob. This means that you will make a second range reading to caluclate the target's speed.

Is may analysis of this issue correct. The above assumes that the KIUB interface is being used for the range, speed and Aob calculations.

Correct, within all the parameters course is the most stable, as long as your concealment is proper. The AOB can be determined by eye, by the KiUB, or from your map tracking data. The speed in OM can be tricky, these targets like to change speed so its important to listen to the officers calling speed changes from the hydrophone or from the scope when up. Its always a good idea to do a guick check of your data about a minute before firing to make sure the solution is viable. Then you get close 800m or less which assures that any minor error is irrelevant.

Happy hunting!

[jaxa]

I've found this thread looking infos about KIUB in OM. Idea of this user interface is good and I like it, but when I use my LCD native resolution (1680x1050) KIUB doesn't look sharp, rather like coloured pencil drawings. Is it possible to polish it and make it more photorealistic and more HD? Maybe grey colour of back panels rather than brown too?

[jaxa]

Small misunderstanding - I was talking about GUI and all gauges of periscopes & UZO views for torpedo attacks, not about environment.
Gauges of attack map look crisp, but those I'm talking about like in lower resolution. Back panels are brown - better (and probably more historic accurate) look in grey, like in most of GUI addons. Using 1280x1050 resolution it's clearly visible. I saw at SH5 workshop thread about GUI for SH5 based on Karamazov KIUB for SH4 - gauges looked better than in original set IMHO.

[ChopSuey1981]

Respect for that Kind of Mod.. but i may ask you how i can deactivate this Mod...in Omegu... its a little bit too confusing for me!`?

[Rocco_99]

Hello sir,

pls tell me how can i install yur mod? which file i need to download, exactly?
i got a couple of files, but i still didnt works....

regards,

R.

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

This mod has been included by Lurker_hlb3 in OMEGU V300 WITH Patch, and OM Plot v402 so make sure to download his latest versions and patches.


Optional fixes, enable them with JSGME AFTER all OMEGU mods:
- AOB wheel marks remover: http://www.filefront.com/17001559/Ki...s%20remove.zip
(This removes the green marks that show up when you turn on the AOB finder wheel).

- AOBF and Stadimeter bright buttons: http://www.filefront.com/17001601/Ki...%20buttons.zip
(On low resolutions, these buttons can be hard to see. I've made them a bit brighter in the OFF status).

Documentation links:
http://www.filefront.com/14992013/KiUB-User-Guide.zip/
http://www.filefront.com/15351513/Manual-Targeting.zip/ this is a big one, 28 MB.


KiUB (or Kriegsmarine Interface for UBm, or "Cube" for short) is a mod that adds TDC and torpedo panels, miliradian marks and an AOB wheel to the Attack Periscope screen.
- it works for any resolution
- no optional files for different types of Uboats (only if you play Type 21 and want to see a correct salvo dial)
- doesn't affect the American Interface
- easy to customise marks and filters (details in the first documentation link)

Many thanks to all that helped me and kept me company during the 3 months it took to make. This thread is open for any question regarding the KiUB interface and the SH4 interface in general. If you make modifications to my image files (which I tried to encourage by making the files themselves as easy to change as possible) feel free to post them here and I'll update this main post, with all credit awarded to the respective modder. Since OMEGU is a big mod, it would be best to have small fixes and visual upgrades here instead of spamming Lurker for updates.

Unlike in SH3 where we had multiple options of campaigns and interfaces, Operation Monsun is THE mod to have when playing Uboats. Because of the simplicity of changing from RFB/TMO and other american side mods using JSGME, I've decided that making multiple versions of this interface for other super mods would be pointless. However anyone can integrate this into any interface (including vanilla, by using the resource files at the bottom of this page).

Making this mod has been difficult and many shortcuts had to be made. The SH4 interface has more hard coded elements and to make a mod that works on any resolution requires a good understanding of the object structure and a bit of planning. My mod should be regarded "as it is", adding new objects or moving/replacing current objects would be very difficult. While I am available for any bug reports, advice and open discussion about using and changing this mod, the main layout is final. The lessons learned are here on this thread and available to all that want to enhance the SH4 interface (and SH5, since they share the same 2d engine).

Special thanks:
- OLC, Hitman, Makman94, h.sie, Joegrundman and Mikhayl for their work with SH3 and showing us what a Sub sim interface should look like.
- again Hitman and Makman94 for their continued support with this mod
- Lurker_hlb3 for actually giving me a reason to make it
- the Subsim community for it's wealth of information and support for the game
- not least, the Ubisoft Romania dev team for making this game as modable as it is



Kit for modders: http://www.filefront.com/17110215/KiUB%20Files.zip
WARNING: this is NOT the mod itself, don't be fooled by the folder structure. DO NOT enable this in JSGME. The playable mod is already included in OMEGU.
These are all the files on which I have worked. Since the mod is integrated into OMEGU, to prevent weird situations, I'll offer them as resources here, separately. You can use, modify, integrate, do whatever you want, as long as you don't charge money (or I'll come to your door and beg for some). There's no need to ask me for permission to use them. Go ahead, have fun. A little credit would be nice, but don't bother too much with that either.

[jaxa]

As you have described above you don't need install specific files, simply install OMEGU addon.

But I have another question - how to safely uninstall KIUB from OM+OMEGU? I want to return to stock user interface, but with all OMEGU fixes. Is it possible?

[marcospanik]

i have the same question as Jaxa....is there any way how to get stock (sh3 like) interface for scopes and UZO (i really liked it, no insult to karamazovs work ) without interfeering other effects of OMEGU ??
...and also....with KiUB, how can I attack on surface, UZO is not recognizing any ship (i must identify it with attack scope).
thanks for reply