Good technique for tracking escort targets -- SONAR Only -- No Map Updates

kstanb · 01-16-12, 12:38 PM

I am not an expert, but for what I read the best advice is to avoid it completely and get used to stadimeter instead; (there are mods that expand the zoom capability making stadimeter reads a lot easier to do), you can also start a career when radar is available.

The problem with sonar is that you won't know how proficient is the escort crew you are facing; if it is a green crew, and sea conditions are poor, then they might not get you, but if they are proficient, chances are they will go after you.

Dignan · 01-16-12, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kstanb

I am not an expert, but for what I read the best advice is to avoid it completely and get used to stadimeter instead; (there are mods that expand the zoom capability making stadimeter reads a lot easier to do), you can also start a career when radar is available.

The problem with sonar is that you won't know how proficient is the escort crew you are facing; if it is a green crew, and sea conditions are poor, then they might not get you, but if they are proficient, chances are they will go after you.

That's what I was afraid the answer would be. Thanks for the advice. I also considered the possibility of doing a surface attack if the fog was heavy enough or it was night+fog. Then you could use the radar to plot a course and speed.

Platapus · 01-17-12, 08:31 PM

2 IFs

If you are stationary and
If the game was equipped with a proportional divider, you could track rather well using just sonar. You would be able to determine course and get a pretty good idea of speed. But you need proportional dividers. I sure wish the game had them or someone could mod them in the game.

You could try to do it on paper but a good set of proportional dividers will run you about $200.00.

Without those two "IFs", tracking on sonar in the game is difficult and you will probably lose your target.

I am working with one of our mathematician brains at work to work out some trapezoidal formula. We are trying to generate a procedure to determine speed, course, and range by making long range bearing only sightings but I am sure it could work with sonar too. As soon as we have something I plan on making a post on our results.

Dignan · 01-17-12, 09:17 PM

I look forward to those results. I assume you've already stumbled across the "4 Bearing Technique" in the SH5 forums? If not, do a search for 4 bearings technique there. I think it may be the traphezoidal technique you are referring to. To be honest, I've tried to learn it several times but felt like I was back in calculus or advanced geometry class and I gave up....because subsims are about having fun, not doing complex math problems.

If you can simplify the process I'm all ears though.

TorpX · 01-18-12, 02:39 AM

Yes, there have been at least a couple sonar only techniques posted on the forum. I've never tried them, though. They didn't strike me as being all that practical.

Sailor Steve · 01-18-12, 11:33 AM

Prior to the war the sonar-only attack was recommended. Here is the reality:

Quote:

Only 31 of the 4,873 attacks analyzed after the war could be described as "sound" attacks, and none of these were successful.

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/subsinpacific.htm

So the "sonar-only" attack in any game is 100% unrealistic.

Loudspeaker · 01-18-12, 12:04 PM

Nowadays they determine ship class and speed by listening to the propellers only. Knowing target speed AND bearing makes it easy to dertermine range and course. Perhaps some of you know this technique from SSN688(I) Hunterkiller?

I have been trying to work something out based on the few facts provided to you by your sonarman:

1) Bearing
2) Speed: fast, medium or slow (approximately 12+, 9, 6)
3) Target moving away or closing

Problem is, this is a time consuming method. Just as you are beginning to get a clue, what is going on up there, your target is already anchoring in Tokyo Bay. Not to mention the frustrations coming with the target simply altering its course and makes you feel like an idiot.

Nisgeis · 01-19-12, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

So the "sonar-only" attack in any game is 100% unrealistic.

Especially as the speed of sound in game is instantaneous, so there is no bearing lag from the sonar picking up sound from where the target ship was - an error which gets larger with target speed and high AoBs. This does make it much easier to do an attack as you get optical-like accuracy for sound bearings.

01-17-12, 08:31 PM	#3
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,373 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	2 IFs If you are stationary and If the game was equipped with a proportional divider, you could track rather well using just sonar. You would be able to determine course and get a pretty good idea of speed. But you need proportional dividers. I sure wish the game had them or someone could mod them in the game. You could try to do it on paper but a good set of proportional dividers will run you about $200.00. Without those two "IFs", tracking on sonar in the game is difficult and you will probably lose your target. I am working with one of our mathematician brains at work to work out some trapezoidal formula. We are trying to generate a procedure to determine speed, course, and range by making long range bearing only sightings but I am sure it could work with sonar too. As soon as we have something I plan on making a post on our results. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-17-12, 09:17 PM	#4
Dignan Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 698 Downloads: 262 Uploads: 0	I look forward to those results. I assume you've already stumbled across the "4 Bearing Technique" in the SH5 forums? If not, do a search for 4 bearings technique there. I think it may be the traphezoidal technique you are referring to. To be honest, I've tried to learn it several times but felt like I was back in calculus or advanced geometry class and I gave up....because subsims are about having fun, not doing complex math problems. If you can simplify the process I'm all ears though. __________________

01-16-12, 12:38 PM	#1
kstanb Sparky Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 153 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	I am not an expert, but for what I read the best advice is to avoid it completely and get used to stadimeter instead; (there are mods that expand the zoom capability making stadimeter reads a lot easier to do), you can also start a career when radar is available. The problem with sonar is that you won't know how proficient is the escort crew you are facing; if it is a green crew, and sea conditions are poor, then they might not get you, but if they are proficient, chances are they will go after you.

01-18-12, 02:39 AM	#5
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	Yes, there have been at least a couple sonar only techniques posted on the forum. I've never tried them, though. They didn't strike me as being all that practical.

01-18-12, 12:04 PM	#7
Loudspeaker Bosun Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 69 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	Nowadays they determine ship class and speed by listening to the propellers only. Knowing target speed AND bearing makes it easy to dertermine range and course. Perhaps some of you know this technique from SSN688(I) Hunterkiller? I have been trying to work something out based on the few facts provided to you by your sonarman: 1) Bearing 2) Speed: fast, medium or slow (approximately 12+, 9, 6) 3) Target moving away or closing Problem is, this is a time consuming method. Just as you are beginning to get a clue, what is going on up there, your target is already anchoring in Tokyo Bay. Not to mention the frustrations coming with the target simply altering its course and makes you feel like an idiot.